Mega tree dilemma

[Thinkagainagain]

That's a big tree how many strips total , What controller are you using .

I'm using two E682s... 2,000 pixels, and 24 total strings, I think I can get a decent 270° tree.. I would like 360°, like in UncleDan's video above,... But that's a lot more pixels and other supplies that go with it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Ebuechner]

7 hours ago, Thinkagainagain said:

Great tree ideas... Unfortunately, it sounds like I bought the wrong strips... And a bunch of them.

I'm building pretty much the same tree that UncleDan built (thanks for the video)

I'm building out of galvanized pipe (3/4", 1", & 1-1/4"), using clamps and guy wires to keep it from moving. It looks like it's going to be about 22 feet, 3" spacing, 85 pixels per strip and power injected at the base of every other strip, 85 up, 85 down... This should make the most use of my controllers... My other thought was to just run all power thru the controller and add a controller to eliminate power injection.

Thanks for all the great info, I'm always looking for ideas to make my tree better (preferably before I buy products) ...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

I if you're running 85 pixels up the tree then 85 back down you should be able to run a heavy wire from your controller to your first set of pixels and then run power to where the next strip comes down all your power would then be supplied through one cable. I personally buy the green extension cords when they come on sale at the hardware store they have 3 conductors at 16 gauge which is usually more than enough to  Supply a full DMX universe without injection. All twelve of my universes for the mega tree will be done with a single cable to run three strips with 56 pixels each. I've already put together 9 strips total which would be 3 universes and tested it with this configuration it works perfectly. I am setup with a hundred Watts per output on the controller which is slightly over what I need with all the pixels on full White. I'm running for 400-watt power supplies on a 16 output controller two of the power supplies control the two banks on the controller. I have pulled 4 of the lower fuses on each Bank and used a remote fuse block to connect the remaining two power supplies into the controller board. I do this by connecting the power supply through the fuse block to the load side of the fuse that's been pulled off the controller board.

[k6ccc]

Be real careful with that setup. That is well in excess of the current rating for E682 outputs (and most other controllers). A full universe in full white is almost 10 amps.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk

[Ebuechner]

10 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

Be real careful with that setup. That is well in excess of the current rating for E682 outputs (and most other controllers). A full universe in full white is almost 10 amps.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk

If you read carefully how I did it you'll realize that I have split the load up on the controller board. Each output is still protected by a 7.5 amp fuse. And The bus bar on the controller is not carrying the full load.

[uncledan]

13 hours ago, drivemewilder said:

Unmanned Aerial Vehicle....you used a drone to film your display yes?

I know what a UAV is... As I stated "Not sure what UAV it was.  It was a professional who hooked me up.  I know he said he had close to 20k in it though" 

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, Ebuechner said:

If you read carefully how I did it you'll realize that I have split the load up on the controller board. Each output is still protected by a 7.5 amp fuse. And The bus bar on the controller is not carrying the full load.

Despite doing it on my phone during my commute (on a train, not driving), I did read what you said about three times until it made sense.  You are still pulling almost 10 amps per output (at full white for all channels), and although I could not quickly find it, I'm pretty sure I have seen the specs for the E682 and 10 amps is quite a bit larger than rated.  VERY likely exceeds the current rating of those connectors too.  Also remember that although with your method the positive voltage is not going through the power busses on the PC board, but the ground current IS going through the PC board (assuming you are connecting the ground cables from the two extra power supplies to the ground lugs of the E682).

Of course, we very seldom have every pixel full white, and generally not for very long, but it's not good engineering to make assumptions like that.

 

[jerry72]

1 hour ago, k6ccc said:

Despite doing it on my phone during my commute (on a train, not driving), I did read what you said about three times until it made sense.  You are still pulling almost 10 amps per output (at full white for all channels), and although I could not quickly find it, I'm pretty sure I have seen the specs for the E682 and 10 amps is quite a bit larger than rated.  VERY likely exceeds the current rating of those connectors too.  Also remember that although with your method the positive voltage is not going through the power busses on the PC board, but the ground current IS going through the PC board (assuming you are connecting the ground cables from the two extra power supplies to the ground lugs of the E682).

Of course, we very seldom have every pixel full white, and generally not for very long, but it's not good engineering to make assumptions like that.

 

Each output on the E682 is only rated for 5 amps max, 32 amps max per 8 outputs. I have heard of guys putting in larger fuses only to fry the board.

Edited April 30, 2016 by jerry72

[Thinkagainagain]

On 4/25/2016 at 11:38 PM, uncledan said:

I constructed a similar tree last year.  Mine was a 360 tree 32x50 with 5" spacing.  I used 16 outputs, zigzag, powered the first 50 from the board and injected at the end/bottom of every other string.  Power injection only at the bottom keeps things simple.  Video of my tree if interested. 

 

UncleDan - Can you share your setup for creating the bouncing rows on the mega tree? I know this is Light-o-Rama forum, but I'm sequencing in Vixen and working on grouping my rows in the mega tree now to create this effect. 

Any Tips? 

[Ebuechner]

7 hours ago, k6ccc said:

Despite doing it on my phone during my commute (on a train, not driving), I did read what you said about three times until it made sense.  You are still pulling almost 10 amps per output (at full white for all channels), and although I could not quickly find it, I'm pretty sure I have seen the specs for the E682 and 10 amps is quite a bit larger than rated.  VERY likely exceeds the current rating of those connectors too.  Also remember that although with your method the positive voltage is not going through the power busses on the PC board, but the ground current IS going through the PC board (assuming you are connecting the ground cables from the two extra power supplies to the ground lugs of the E682).

Of course, we very seldom have every pixel full white, and generally not for very long, but it's not good engineering to make assumptions like that.

 

I'm using the pixlite 16. All my loads in my universes are pulling just under 6 amps full on white. My calculations had me higher than my real world test. When I did the calculations I was at about 6.8 amps. Real world 5.88 amps. And I should have clarified I do have extra ground wires running back to their respective power supplies. I'm not sure where the 10 amp number is coming from did I miss something? I'm running a pixel nodes from holiday Coro

[k6ccc]

Roughly 60mA per node x 170 nodes is pretty close to 10 amps. It's really slightly less than 60, but that's an nice round number to work with - and better to be be conservative rather than under estimated.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk

[Ebuechner]

The number I was working with was 45 mA per node which I got off their website 2.26 amps / 50. The Pixlite 16 manual says it can handle 30 amps per bank and it stated it's okay to go up to a 7.5 amp fuse. Those were the only numbers that I had to work from. On paper everything works out and my load test on full White shows me that I should be within specs. I haven't been playing with these pixels for as long as some of you that's why I'm here asking questions

[Ebuechner]

Dave from holiday Coro called me in person and we discussed the strips. He gave me some insight on the problems that some people have had with them so I took a few of my strips and decided to test them myself (after all I already had them made up and I wouldn't lose anything) . So over a cement floor I started shaking them as violently as I possibly could for about a minute (nothing) then I figured maybe the problem people are having is when they're hung on a tree stretched out. So I screwed a hook to the wall over the same cement floor and while pulling on them I shook the hell out of them (nothing) I did have a node or to pop out while I was putting the strips together but since then I haven't been able to get any to fall out and I've tried several times here's a video.

 

[uncledan]

Quite the test you did there!  I honestly would expect some nodes to pop out of the Holiday Coro or Boscoyo strips with the weather I encountered and the test you did.  I was hesitant constructing a mega tree with these from day one;  For me if one node pops out ever that's too many.  That's why I ziptied and taped every node.  That was not fun..

[Ebuechner]

1 hour ago, uncledan said:

Quite the test you did there!  I honestly would expect some nodes to pop out of the Holiday Coro or Boscoyo strips with the weather I encountered and the test you did.  I was hesitant constructing a mega tree with these from day one;  For me if one node pops out ever that's too many.  That's why I ziptied and taped every node.  That was not fun..

I guess I'm having a hard time picturing how you applied the tape and zip ties to hold in the nodes

[uncledan]

My strips had a hole for the nodes and then three small holes between the holes for the nodes.  I put a zip tie in the outer two small holes and basically secured the wire to the pixel strip.  The nodes weren't taped or ziptied but it was impossible for them to come out. I used square nodes with wire entering the back of pixel so the tape and zipties kept them in place.   I put black  tape just so the zipties weren't visible.  If they weren't in storage I would take a pic.  Regardless not something you want to do.  Way too much time.  I would assume close to 20 hours just ziptying and taping every node..

[Ebuechner]

2 minutes ago, uncledan said:

My strips had a hole for the nodes and then three small holes between the holes for the nodes.  I put a zip tie in the outer two small holes and basically secured the wire to the pixel strip.  The nodes weren't taped or ziptied but it was impossible for them to come out. I used square nodes with wire entering the back of pixel so the tape and zipties kept them in place.   I put black  tape just so the zipties weren't visible.  If they weren't in storage I would take a pic.  Regardless not something you want to do.  Way too much time.  I would assume close to 20 hours just ziptying and taping every node..

Now I'm beginning to understand. If you use Square nodes and then pulled the wires up tight you changed the center of gravity on the strip which would allow it to twist a lot more when the wind hit it. If you leave the wires hanging loose like I have them they act as a ballast keeping the strip level even in the Wind. Of course you can't keep the strips from swaying in the Wind but with enough ballast they shouldn't twist. If you had the gravity almost centered on those strips they would probably look like the Tacoma Narrows Bridge just before it failed in the Wind. 

[Dennis Laff]

I have a 30 strip pixel tree 50 bullet nodes per strip , in Hoilday Coro strips. 3 inch spacing about 12 feet tall  strips are mounted solid at top and I use heavy springs on the bottom of each strip to keep tension. To base  its get very windy in Chicago IL  they don't twist and I never had a node pop out  no tape no cable ties nodes just in strip

[uncledan]

3 hours ago, Ebuechner said:

Now I'm beginning to understand. If you use Square nodes and then pulled the wires up tight you changed the center of gravity on the strip which would allow it to twist a lot more when the wind hit it. If you leave the wires hanging loose like I have them they act as a ballast keeping the strip level even in the Wind. Of course you can't keep the strips from swaying in the Wind but with enough ballast they shouldn't twist. If you had the gravity almost centered on those strips they would probably look like the Tacoma Narrows Bridge just before it failed in the Wind. 

Typo, Been soldering up square nodes all day...  Mega tree is bullets..  Not Square nodes. It helped a lot when I ziptied and taped them.  Instead of a 1" wide strip to catch the wind it was more round and didn't act like a sail.  Now I'm redoing it all anyways...

3 hours ago, Dennis Laff said:

I have a 30 strip pixel tree 50 bullet nodes per strip , in Hoilday Coro strips. 3 inch spacing about 12 feet tall  strips are mounted solid at top and I use heavy springs on the bottom of each strip to keep tension. To base  its get very windy in Chicago IL  they don't twist and I never had a node pop out  no tape no cable ties nodes just in strip

My tree was 32x50 with 5" spacing.  Quite a bit higher than your 12 footer.  Similar construction with hookhead  on top and tension on ground with ground anchors.  They are tight.  Gusts of 60-70 mph in late November caused a few nodes to pop out.  My tree is also in the middle of my yard with no protection to block any wind. I haven't got the calipers out to test the I.D. of the hole for the node but it seemed as if some nodes fit tighter than others.  Mega Tree is getting a whole new design this year..  Still trying to figure that out..

[EdNetman]

I constructed a similar tree last year.  Mine was a 360 tree 32x50 with 5" spacing.  I used 16 outputs, zigzag, powered the first 50 from the board and injected at the end/bottom of every other string.  Power injection only at the bottom keeps things simple.  Video of my tree if interested. 

 

Your neighbors had a nice static display, how mad were they the first time you fired up the light show? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Kinda hard to top that amazing job you did.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[uncledan]

8 hours ago, EdNetman said:

Your neighbors had a nice static display, how mad were they the first time you fired up the light show?

Kinda hard to top that amazing job you did.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the kind words.  Most neighbors welcomed us to the neighborhood when we purchased the home.  First words out of their mouth were "You better do Christmas and Halloween.  This street goes all out."  Think I have that covered .  Most of the neighbors have nice static displays.  Video was taken in very late  December and lots of lights were taken down or off. The whole neighborhood loves it except one... We bought the home we bought because of the street it was on and love for Halloween and Christmas displays. News was out beginning of November when I had barely started setting up to film this because of a complaint..  http://www.ksby.com/story/30613252/neighbors-voice-concern-over-christmas-light-display-in-buellton 2015 was not a very good Christmas season because of one neighbor.  I was about ready to throw in the towel and turn it all off..   Amazing how much one person can bring you down...  Not looking forward to this year unfortunately...  Sorry to go off subject but I hear the word "neighbor" and it strikes a nerve..