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BlackwolfK9

Interactive

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Every day of the year.  What would you like to do?

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Not sure yet, trying to come up with ideas for Easter

Is every object controlled connected to a channel on a controller

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Let me explain what I'm doing with my year round landscape lighting.  I use interactive triggers for several purposes.  First of all, my evening show is scheduled to start at 1600 every day, but is set to wait for a trigger.  The trigger is a light sensor that detects that it has gotten dark.  The next is the steps on my front porch.  The steps can be seen on the last couple pictures on this page:

http://newburghlights.org/Landscaping.html

The RGB light strips are controlled by a 16 channel DC controller card.  Normally during the evening they are dimly lit.  When the front door is opened a magnetic door switch which is currently connected to an input of a ServoDog card detects the open door and starts an interactive sequence that ramps the lights on the steps up to full intensity from the top step down.  Similarly there are two electric eye beams that are connected to an InputPup that will detect someone approaching the steps from either the driveway or the walkway to the sidewalk (once I get the walkway built).  In either of those cases, an interactive sequence is triggered that ramps the porch steps lights up to full intensity from the bottom step up to the top.  At the end of the interactive sequences, the lights are ramped back down to the normal dim state.  When the walkway gets built, it will have light strip along the entire walkway.  Just like the porch steps lights, the walkway light strips will ramp up when someone enters the walkway from either end.

 

The light strips under the porch steps are RGB dumb strips, and the strips that will be along the walkway will be WS2811 smart strips controlled by a SanDevices E6804.

 

In case you are wondering why the front door magnetic switch is connected to a ServoDog, the reason is that the InputPup had not been invented yet, and the only way to get a group of inputs was the ServoDog.  For a while I had one output channel on the ServoDog used for some LED light rope, but the rope light was replaced with WS2811 smart strip several years ago.  I have another InputPup that will replace the ServoDog when I get up into the attic one of these days...

 

One note to remember if you are using enhanced LOR networking.  Inputs can not be detected when using enhanced networking.  For that reason, once I have the last two controllers replaced with G3 controllers this spring so I can run absolutely everything from intensity files, I will have to maintain a non-enhanced network for the inputs.

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Are the devices (ie: buttons, sensors, etc) 12v devices or are they 110v plugged into a channel on the controller?

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The sensors connect to the input connections on a controller. Generally the sensor looks to be just a switch contact to the controller.

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Are you referring to one of the 16 channels coming out of the controller?

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No. Inputs on controllers, not outputs.

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On or any other controller that has inputs (most do).

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I just installed  my new inputpup in test mode. I have no switches yet. To test I touch one of the 8 wires inserted into a channel to the ground wire. It wirks fine. I know almost nothing about electronics so Im lost regarding adding any kind of motion detection or other "sensors" as they all seem to be engineered to allow power to a light or device. It seems a SPST simply closes a circuit like me touching those wires together. Is that what the security ir motion detector LOR sells does or is it also outputting volts? Can someone explain how I would wire that motion detector to the inputpup without blowing up the pup?

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I use interactive a lot and can explain it, but I'm busy doing something with a time limit. I'll answer in detail this evening.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk

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You are correct that the InputPup is looking for either a contact closure (like you did by touching two wires together), or a lack of contact closure.  The InputPup can be set to look for either one on a port by port basis.  That is set with the Hardware Utility.  As for motion sensors, you are thinking about the motion sensors that are normally used to turn on flood lights.  That is not what you are wanting to use for an input to the InputPup.  You are looking for sensors that are used with an alarm system.  Those are generally providing a contact closure for low voltage.  LOR sells a motion detector that works with LOR inputs quite well - http://store.lightorama.com/motiondetector.html   I have never used this sensor, so I can't personally explain it.  There are lots of other sensors of various types around.  I'm using a pair of light beams - http://www.amazon.com/Single-Photoelectric-Detector-Active-Sensor/dp/B0050GTZ32?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00.  The provide inputs to my InputPup when someone approaches my front porch.  Those inputs are used to trigger interactive sequences that turn on the light strips to light up the porch steps. See the bottom four photos on this page and the explanations:  http://newburghlights.org/Landscaping.html.  I also use a magnetic door switch on the front security door (part of which is visible in the first of those photos) that also ramps up the light strips on the porch steps when the door is opened.  The last one I currently use is a light sensor that detects when it gets dark every evening and starts my evening show.  Next weekend I will add another light sensor that will detect when it gets light in the morning and shut down my show.

Most security system sensors are designed to provide a contact closure when the detector is in the normal condition and the circuit opens when in the alarm condition.  It is done this way so that a failure of the wiring will result in an alarm.  More sophisticated alarm systems are set up so that the alarm panel can tell the difference between an alarm condition and a circuit failure.  The InputPup is not that sophisticated, but does not need to be for our purposes.

I'm sure that does not answer all your questions, so fire away and I'll attempt to answer your questions.

 

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Thank you very much, Jim. I think I see what was throwing me off.  The PIR-MD-1 schematic shows the +9vdc wire and I thought it would be going back to the inputpup, not from the inputpup, a controller, or some other source.  I'm going to start toying with that unit and the Single Beam Photoelectric Detector Active IR Sensor. Motion detection seems like flakey technology. I have security lights on my garage and we use indoor motion detection switches for two hallways.  They work okay, but using a beam means I can place it at a height the cats, dogs, squirrels, skunks, etc. are less likely to trip it.  From Spring to Fall we get a lot of car prowlers in the neighborhood breaking windows for quarters, so I'm hoping I can either catch someone in the act or at least give them a little scare....stay tuned.

I will post more questions if I run into a snag, but you did a great job and I really appreciate it. I love that you are really taking advantage of your investment year round.

The one thing I'm very impressed with is that the LOR hardware "just works".  

Thank you very much. Take care.

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I received the PIR motion sensor.  The output voltage is about 3v.  I don't see any information regarding the 8 ports on the inputpup being able to handle voltage.  So, how can I hook up the motion sensor to the inputpup?  I've searched the internet and keep seeing pages on how to connect them to Adruinos and LEDs, which need the voltage.  I think I need a relay, but I'm not sure.  I don't know if I need a resistor.  I'm hopelessly lost.  It's a good thing this is all low voltage or I'd probably fry something.  Speaking of, I'm getting hungry...  

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The short answer is that the InputPup inputs are a voltage sensor with a pullup resistor. I've got to get to bed. Longer answer in the morning.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk

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I think that does answer my question.  So I can wire the OUT pin on the PIR motion sensor to one of the inputpup channels and the ground from the sensor to the inputpup ground, power everything on, wait 30-60 seconds for the motion sensor to restart, then test. I don't have to worry about the 3v or so coming from the sensor blowing the pup.

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It depends on what the PIR is really outputting.  In most cases, the alarms are outputting a dry contact relay closure, so you should not really be seeing any voltage on the pin.  Does the PIR have a single output pin or is it two wires?  The documentation for the PIR likely will also tell / show you how to hook it up.  Does the voltage change when you have someone walk in front of it?

What you DON'T want to do is have the PIR output a higher voltage onto the input of the InputPup.  For example you don't want to throw 24 volts into the InputPup.

 

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I don't own a multimeter. Its time to go get one.  The PIR has a 3.3v-5v pin, output (up to 3.3v it seems), and GND pin.  I'm positive it's not going to put out more than 5v as that's the maximum that will be going to the PIR unless I make a dumb mistake.  I've downloaded several schematics from various sites and have read several instructables and have watched videos on the PIR, but they ALL either connect to an Arduino or to a device (LED, etc.) that is expecting power.

Personally, I think the inputpup documentation is lacking.  Figuring out how to add a dumb switch is very simple. But a newbie like me adding a sensor requires more details about the inputpup channels, I think.

So, in your case, though, you just hook up the output and GND from your sensors directly to the channel and inputpup GND and you're good?

No rush on these questions, by the way. I'm just in the learning stage. There's no deadline or urgency. I'm having fun and I certainly don't want to be a pain. I'm hoping your answers will help another hobby enthusiast in the future. :-)

 

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No problem on the questions.  Depending on what that output is doing may affect if the InputPup detects it.  Yes, a voltmeter would help A LOT!  Does not need to be a fancy one - a less than $10 DVM from Harbor Freight will do what you need.

It sounds like you will not damage anything by hooking it up.

 

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I'm sure folks reading this that understand low voltage electronics are laughing, but I'm too stubborn to care.  I bought a breadboard and a LED that includes at 680 ohm resister.  I have a 9v transistor battery hooked up to the breadboard, along with the PIR motion sensor, and LED so that when I'm still the LED goes out and when I move, the LED lights up, as expected.  The output of the motion sensor is connected to the positive wire of the LED and the negative wire is connected to the ground of the breadboard along with the ground of the motion sensor and the battery.

When I hook up the input pup ground to the breadboard and then as soon as I connect a channel from the inputpup to the output of the motion sensor, the input is "tripped" and the corresponding sequence is played.  The LED is now light constantly and the sequence plays over and over and over.  

If I hook up the positive wire of the LED to the inputpup channel wire and the ground wire to the inputpup ground wire, the light stays lit constantly and the sequence plays over and over.

I can't figure out how to open the circuit when using the motion sensor when the motion sensor is not sensing motion.  I'm guessing I need some electronics part between the motion sensor OUTPUT and the inputpup channel or something.

If the above makes sense at all, can someone help?  Has anyone used a PIR motion sensor with the inputpup?  If so, how did you hook it up?

Thank you.

PS - I think I'm needing a single pole single throw relay switch so that the circuit is open until the motion detector "powers" the relay to close the circuit.   ???

 

 

Edited by therosses5

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http://www1.lightorama.com/Documents/UseMotionDetector.pdf

That talks about how to connect it to a controller, but the same concepts apply to the inputpup.

  1. Use a 9V/12V power supply.  Connect 2 wires to the + side of the power supply:  1 to the Inputpup, one to the motion detector.
  2. Connect 3 wires, 1 from the GND on the Inputpup, 2 from the motion detector: 1 from NC (either),  and one from 12V- (9V will work too so don't freak out), to the - the power supply.
  3. Connect a wire from the Input Pup NC (the EMPTY terminal), to the InputPup #1.
  4. When setting up the show, be sure to tell the show editor that the switch is NORMALLY CLOSED.  (NC)

At the end you have...

On the MOTION detector:

  • NC to Inputpup #1
  • NC (other) to PS GND
  • 12- to PS GND
  • 12+ to PS +

On the Input Pup

  • VDC to PS +
  • GND to PS -
  • #1 to NC on Inputpup

On the Power Supply:

  • + to 12+ Motion Detector
  • + to VDC Input Pup
  • - to NC (other) Motion Detector
  • - to 12- Motion Detector
  • - to GND Input Pup

 

 

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DevMike,

Thank you so much for the detailed post.  I changed the input channels to Normally Closed using the LOR hardware utility and that did the trick.  I was fooled into thinking the PIR Motion Sensor output was normally open because while testing the LED light, the light would be out unless motion was detected.  That, I do not understand, but it is working now.

Now I can use LOR as a security system during the off season. :-)

Blair

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