Importing channels into an existing sequence

[dkunesch]

I have a template saved for 16 pixel strips.  Is there any way to import the template into an existing sequence.  I have tried just doing an import but when I do all the other channels disappear.

 

Thanks,

Don

[Robert Burton]

I actually have a trouble ticket in with them now on this very topic.

[basis21b]

I have a template saved for 16 pixel strips.  Is there any way to import the template into an existing sequence.  I have tried just doing an import but when I do all the other channels disappear.

 

Thanks,

Don

From the sounds of it you have created two separate templates.  Template one is the existing sequence.  Template two is the one for the 16 pixel strips.  Assuming that is true what you are attempting is to merge two templates together.  That will not work using the import function as the internal numbering scheme for the channels will overlap. 

[Robert Burton]

Why or should it overlap?  I would think if your adding new props like that, that it could be possible. I did that last year in 3.xx S3. Honestly can't remember exactly how, but I did. Now I can't either in S4.  As mentioned I have a trouble ticket going on it.

[basis21b]

Sorry this is so long but you asked for an explanation of why it would overlap.  I wanted to be thorough. 

Again in my response to the OP I said that if you create two separate templates you run the risk of having overlap of the channels.

 

Within the LOR software is the entity called a channel.  That entity has all sorts of attributes associated with it.  Attributes like Name, Color, Unit ID, Circuit Number, Network, Device Type and Events that occur at certain times.  These attributes are all of the things you see when you click on a channel and get the Channel Settings pop-up and all of your timing events.  Any or all of these things can change.  One year I might call the channel Apple Tree 1.  The following year the apple tree is gone and I want to call the channel Maple Tree.  To accommodate these attributes they need to be associated with something that does not change.  The developers of the software came up with a naming/numbering scheme that provides that.  I can now export a channel configuration that contains the name change of Maple Tree and it correctly updates the right channel.  That would impossible if we used the original name of Apple Tree 1.  

 

Let’s put that concept into practice.  We create a .lms file.  We choose to initially create it with one channel that we will call Beat.  We decide to add a CMB 16 channel controller to our sequence.  The Unit-id of this controller will be 01.  In the LMS file we would see something like the list below.  These are not the actual entries in the file just an example.

 

Internalid=0 Name=Beat Color=Blue

Internalid=1 Name=CMB 01.1 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=1

Internalid= 2 Name=CMB 01.2 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=2

Internalid= 3 Name=CMB 01.3 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=3

Internalid= 4 Name=CMB 01.4 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=4

Internalid= 5 Name=CMB 01.5 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=5

Internalid= 6 Name=CMB 01.6 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=6

Internalid= 7 Name=CMB 01.7 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=7

Internalid= 8 Name=CMB 01.8 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=8

Internalid= 9 Name=CMB 01.9 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=9

Internalid=10 Name=CMB 01.10 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=10

Internalid=11 Name=CMB 01.11 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=11

Internalid=1 2 Name=CMB 01.12 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=12

Internalid= 13 Name=CMB 01.13 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=13

Internalid= 14 Name=CMB 01.14 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=14

Internalid= 15 Name=CMB 01.15 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=15

Internalid= 16 Name=CMB 01.16 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=16

 

The InternalId is the value the software uses to keep things unique.  You can change any of the attributes associated with the InternalId and the software will keep track of them.

 

Now create a second .lms file.  In this file we will again create a single channel called Beat.  Instead of adding a CMB16 we put in a CMD24D.  The unit id of this controller will be 03.  The entries in this file will look something like this.  Again, this is not the format of the LOR files but merely an example.

 

Internalid=0 Name=Beat Color=Blue

Internalid=1 Name=CMD 03.1 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=1

Internalid= 2 Name=CMD 03.2 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=2

Internalid= 3 Name=CMD 03.3 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=3

Internalid= 4 Name=CMD 03.4 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=4

Internalid= 5 Name=CMD 03.5 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=5

Internalid= 6 Name=CMD 03.6 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=6

Internalid= 7 Name=CMD 03.7 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=7

Internalid= 8 Name=CMD 03.8 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=8

Internalid= 9 Name=CMD 03.9 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=9

Internalid=10 Name=CMD 03.10 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=10

Internalid=11 Name=CMD 03.11 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=11

Internalid=1 2 Name=CMD 03.12 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=12

Internalid= 13 Name=CMD 03.13 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=13

Internalid= 14 Name=CMD 03.14 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=14

Internalid= 15 Name=CMD 03.15 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=15

Internalid= 16 Name=CMD 03.16 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=16

Internalid= 17 Name=CMD 03.17 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=17

Internalid= 18 Name=CMD 03.18 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=18

Internalid= 19 Name=CMD 03.19 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=19

Internalid= 20 Name=CMD 03.20 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=20

Internalid= 21 Name=CMD 03.21 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=21

Internalid= 22 Name=CMD 03.22 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=22

Internalid= 23 Name=CMD 03.23 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=23

Internalid= 24 Name=CMD 03.24 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=24

 

Notice how the InternalId started at zero in this file just like the earlier one.  This is a brand new .lms file and so we start over our numbering. 

 

Now the fun starts.  I decide I am going to use the Import Channel Configuration Tool to put these two files together. 

 

If we import the channel configuration for the second file into the first the Internalid entries from the second file will overwrite those of the first.  We will end up with a sequence with the Beat Channel and the 24 channels from the CMD24D.  All of the attributes from the CMB16 are gone.  The timing events remain but the Channel Settings attributes will be lost.

 

Internalid=0 Name=Beat Color=Blue

Internalid=1 Name=CMD 03.1 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=1

Internalid= 2 Name=CMD 03.2 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=2

Internalid= 3 Name=CMD 03.3 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=3

Internalid= 4 Name=CMD 03.4 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=4

Internalid= 5 Name=CMD 03.5 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=5

Internalid= 6 Name=CMD 03.6 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=6

Internalid= 7 Name=CMD 03.7 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=7

Internalid= 8 Name=CMD 03.8 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=8

Internalid= 9 Name=CMD 03.9 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=9

Internalid=10 Name=CMD 03.10 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=10

Internalid=11 Name=CMD 03.11 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=11

Internalid=1 2 Name=CMD 03.12 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=12

Internalid= 13 Name=CMD 03.13 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=13

Internalid= 14 Name=CMD 03.14 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=14

Internalid= 15 Name=CMD 03.15 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=15

Internalid= 16 Name=CMD 03.16 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=16

Internalid= 17 Name=CMD 03.17 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=17

Internalid= 18 Name=CMD 03.18 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=18

Internalid= 19 Name=CMD 03.19 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=19

Internalid= 20 Name=CMD 03.20 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=20

Internalid= 21 Name=CMD 03.21 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=21

Internalid= 22 Name=CMD 03.22 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=22

Internalid= 23 Name=CMD 03.23 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=23

Internalid= 24 Name=CMD 03.24 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=24

 

 

Importing the first Channel Configuration into the second sequence becomes very interesting.  The first 17 entries are the Beat Channel and the 16 channel CMB16 controller.  The last eight channels from the CMD24 remain untouched.  Your file will look something like this.  Notice how internalid 17 and beyond are left from the CMD24D.

 

Internalid=0 Name=Beat Color=Blue

Internalid=1 Name=CMB 01.1 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=1

Internalid= 2 Name=CMB 01.2 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=2

Internalid= 3 Name=CMB 01.3 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=3

Internalid= 4 Name=CMB 01.4 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=4

Internalid= 5 Name=CMB 01.5 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=5

Internalid= 6 Name=CMB 01.6 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=6

Internalid= 7 Name=CMB 01.7 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=7

Internalid= 8 Name=CMB 01.8 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=8

Internalid= 9 Name=CMB 01.9 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=9

Internalid=10 Name=CMB 01.10 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=10

Internalid=11 Name=CMB 01.11 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=11

Internalid=1 2 Name=CMB 01.12 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=12

Internalid= 13 Name=CMB 01.13 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=13

Internalid= 14 Name=CMB 01.14 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=14

Internalid= 15 Name=CMB 01.15 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=15

Internalid= 16 Name=CMB 01.16 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=16

Internalid= 17 Name=CMD 03.17 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=17

Internalid= 18 Name=CMD 03.18 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=18

Internalid= 19 Name=CMD 03.19 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=19

Internalid= 20 Name=CMD 03.20 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=20

Internalid= 21 Name=CMD 03.21 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=21

Internalid= 22 Name=CMD 03.22 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=22

Internalid= 23 Name=CMD 03.23 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=23

Internalid= 24 Name=CMD 03.24 Color=Blue Device=LOR Unit=1 Circuit=24

 

 

Taking this further: When you create  Group, that is handled similarly.  If the Internalid in your channel configuration file just happens to match a Group Internalid in your current sequence file that Group entry will be overwritten and suddenly your channels that were grouped aren’t any more.

 

To answer your question as to why it worked last year, I will speculate the Internalid numbers between the two files were not duplicated.

[Robert Burton]

 

 

To answer your question as to why it worked last year, I will speculate the Internalid numbers between the two files were not duplicated.

And that is why I say it should work again. Been sequencing since 2009 so I completely understand the numbering issues. None of the channels, circuits, universes and channels within were duplicated. They were not last year either.

Look in the first pic;

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44091030/Screenshot%202015-11-05%2019.35.34.png

If you look midway down the in the sequence you will see a group call "Windows".

Now look at the second one;

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44091030/Screenshot%202015-11-05%2019.36.03.png

You will see a added RGB channel at the top. That is one 48 RGB channel (144 separate channels)  pixel snowflake that was added. Now look below that. You will see several "Window" channels. They mention (Red), (Green) and (Blue).  That is the windows grouping that was taken apart from being in a group AND RGB channels. Also you will notice the top part of the sequence doesn't exist anymore. NONE had dup channels.

 

Been using import for YEARS. This has not happened behavior has not happened before. I am using Bob's "Vegomatic" to put together the channels so I don't have to go and hand input 1 and half universes of numbers.

 

So hopefully this all makes sense. All I am saying is that it worked last year with s3.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Robert Burton

[MCas4380]

Have you tried opening last years sequence adding your new channels and then saving the channel configuration. Then importing that into your other sequences? If this is a dumb question I'm sorry maybe I'm not understanding the problem your having.

[Robert Burton]

Just tried with an older sequence. Yep. Same thing as what it is doing now. 

[k6ccc]

Robert, you're missing the point basis was making in his really long post. What the channel name, network ID, controller ID, and controller port are completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the internal ID - which you never see unless you manually edit the .XML file (which I do a lot). If you start a new Sequence, the internal number starts over. Therefore, you WILL have duplicated numbers.

BTW, this evening one of the things I did was to take my final 2015 configuration and export that and then import that configuration into my 2014 sequences. My 2015 configuration is almost 5,000 channels, and it was massively changed from 2014. Almost every channel changed network and controller ID, or DMX universe. Other that taking a minute or two, the configuration import worked perfectly. But I CAREFULLY follow the rules for additions.

[Robert Burton]

Jim,

Can you give a step by step on what you did from 2014 to 2015?  Especially since it worked great for you?

[k6ccc]

Jim,

Can you give a step by step on what you did from 2014 to 2015?  Especially since it worked great for you?

 

Sure can.  First a little background.  For Christmas 2014 I had three LOR networks and 10 DMX universes over E1.31.  Because of the Enhanced Network capability introduced with S4, I completely re-arranged the two LOR networks that are used year round to split between controllers that can use enhanced networking and those that can't.  To keep things organized, any controller on the Regular network has a controller ID between 01 and 0F, controllers on the AuxA network have a controller ID between 11 and 1F, and controllers on the AuxB network have a controller ID between 21 and 2F.  This is not necessary, but helps me keep it all organized.  This resulted in every controller changing either the network it's on or it's controller ID or both.  Additionally in prep for some planned additions, I did a rather major shuffle of my DMX universes.  This meant that every single DMX channel changed DMX universe, channel number, or both.  I also added about 350 channels overall.  In other words, A LOT changed.  To give a little rundown of the current configuration:

 

LOR Regular network:

01  ServoDog - inputs only

02  CTB16PC - permanent lights & north wall strings

03  CTB16PC - unused

04  InputPup - Front door and walkway occupancy triggers

 

LOR AuxA network (enhanced)

11  CMB16D - Front steps

12  CMB16D - Tree rings

13  CMB16D - Yard colums

 

LOR AuxB network (enhanced):

21 - 26  CCPs - Arches

 

DMX universes (via E1.31:

01  E6804 #2 - Planter north

02  E6804 #2- Planter south

05  E6804 #1 - Roses

11-18  E682 #1 - Pixel tree

21-23  E682 #1 - Pixel star

31-32  E682 #2 - GECE

35  E6804 #3 - Candy canes

36  E6804 #3 - HexaTrees

 

The total is about 5,000 channels.

 

For Christmas 2014, I had six songs, pus a couple other things.  I took one of those songs and used it as a reference. I modified the channel assignments for all the channels that changed primarily using the Channel configuration screen in SE.  Change controller makes changing controller ID very easy.  For channels that were added (four more strings on the pixel tree, six candy canes (48 channels each), 12 HexaTrees (36 channels), and three additional wall strings), the new channels were added to the very bottom of the first track in the sequence.  The first track is the Master track.  Nothing is EVER deleted from the master track, and all additions go onto the bottom of the master track.  Then the channels are copied to additional tracks as needed.  Then the Master track is locked to prevent accidental changes to it.  I very carefully document all the changes as they are made.  Additionally I made the same changes in a visualization and regularly tested the revised sequence in SE controlling the visualization to make sure the changes matched between the two.  Once I was completely convinced that all the changes were made in both SE and Visualizer, I did a change configuration export in SE and saved the export.

 

Last night I opened one of the other songs from 2014, and did an channel configuration import using the exported configuration from the reference song.  It took somewhere between one and two minutes, but then it completed.  I spent a few minutes spot checking channels that I knew had changed to make sure they were where I expected them to be.  After finding no errors that way, I played the song into Visualizer and watched the visualization looking for things that did not come out right.  After playing it several times (each time watching a different part of the screen), I am convinced that it imported the revised configuration correctly.  Tonight I will do the other songs that are being carried over from 2014.  Again with each one I will use visualizer to confirm that the configuration was correctly imported.  Hopefully by sometime in the next week or so I will be able to play it into the lights for testing.

[basis21b]

I'd like to see if I am correctly understanding the chain of events that got us here:

 

You have an existing sequence.

You want to add a number of channels to this sequence.

You fire up VegoMatic and have it create the channels.

At export time you click on "Set starting config" and tell it where to find the .lcc file that reflects the current state of the existing sequence

You click the "Export LCC Combine" button which creates an .lcc file that is supposed to contain our current state plus the new channels

You attempt to import this newly created .lcc file into your existing sequence and the result is a mess.

 

Am I close?

 

Tom

[Robert Burton]

Jim,

Kind of close to what I am doing.

Tom,

I had a took the last sequence I worked on last year (with all the correct info) and created a exported channel config from that. I then created a .las file with THAT config file. Here it is;

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44091030/Channel%20Setup%20for%202015.las

I then took Vegomatic and created a file with 48 pixels in it. I then, from Vego, created a .lcc file with it;

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44091030/Snowflake%201.lcc

I *was* going to then "import" that .lcc file into the .las file. From that, I was, going to do another config file for 2015.

 

Can you guys take a look at those and see what I am missing? 

[basis21b]

Robert,

 

I've examined the Snowflake.lcc file and the only thing in the file is the channels associated with it.  For the import to work properly it is necessary to merge the contents of this file with something that contains your present channel layout.

 

I suggest you try this:

 

Open the Channel Setup for 2015.las file in the sequence editor

Do an export of the Channel Configuration from that file so it creates a .lcc file

Open Vegomatic and create your Snowflake.

Click on the Export tab on Vegomatic

Click on the "Set starting config" button and select the .lcc file we created in step 2 above.

Click on the "Export LCC combine" button and give this .lcc file a name that indicates it contains your snowflake.

Go to the Sequence Editor and import the .lcc file we created that contains your snowflake.

 

(The key to this is you HAVE to do the step where you Set Starting config.  This tells Vegomatic to take into consideration that you already have channels defined.  Without that it Vegomatic will create a file that will step on existing channels)

Tom

Edited November 6, 2015 by basis21b

[Robert Burton]

You just made my day. THE ONLY steps I was missing was;

1) Set Starting Config. (I was trying to create a .lcc of JUST that snowflake and THEN combine it with the other)

2) Export LCC combine. (THAT is what makes the magic work. )

 

Hopefully others are seeing this. I know I can't be the only one. I did this last year. I knew I didn't have to move channels around or rename things. Vegomatic did it for me... when I did the right steps ;-)

 

Tom. You are the man. Offer still stands on what I PM'ed you with!  NOW, I can sequence during my lunch hours and get done in the 21 days before light up!

Thanks everyone!

[dkunesch]

Some of the sequences were templates and some were painstakingly done by scratch when I was first starting out.  To be clearer, I have many sequences that are all incandescent lights using 4, 16 channel LOR controllers. Some templates, some not.  I created a 16 channel pixel tree DMX template that I control over E 1.31.  I have purchased 16 channel DMX sequences that I would like to merge into my LOR sequences.  In the past I would just bring up the sequence and for each of the 16 strips would :

 

Add Device

Select 160 channels

Convert to RGB

Do the same for 50 pixels

Delete the extra 10 channels, and done.

 

Then I can copy timings (if needed) and then copy and paste my DMX sequence into the channels I just created in my modified sequence.

 

I just wondered if I could save time by importing the 16 universe RGB template into my existing sequence without having to add each universe 1 by 1 16 times.

 

Hope that helps.

[Robert Burton]

I just wondered if I could save time by importing the 16 universe RGB template into my existing sequence without having to add each universe 1 by 1 16 times.

 

 

Get one of your last year's sequences.

Make a .lcc from "Exporting" your channel config.

Download Vegomatic from http://itsmebob.com/SD.html

Make your prop in Vegomatic.

Set your Universes in Vegomatic (remember if it crosses over a universe there is a check for that).

Name it at the bottom and save.

Then follow the steps above.

Open SE.

Make a musical sequence with the music chart you want to redo or make.

Choose that channel config you just made.

Your good to go :-)

[gmac]

Jim,

Kind of close to what I am doing.

Tom,

I had a took the last sequence I worked on last year (with all the correct info) and created a exported channel config from that. I then created a .las file with THAT config file. Here it is;

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44091030/Channel%20Setup%20for%202015.las

I then took Vegomatic and created a file with 48 pixels in it. I then, from Vego, created a .lcc file with it;

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44091030/Snowflake%201.lcc

I *was* going to then "import" that .lcc file into the .las file. From that, I was, going to do another config file for 2015.

 

Can you guys take a look at those and see what I am missing? 

I realize I'm a little slow.......But how do I get to my .las like you posted in the drop box. I don't have any las files but I guess I'm trying to show the same thing but with a lms file  I've been trying but no success

Edited November 7, 2015 by gmac

[Robert Burton]

Hey GMAC. Hope you guys up in Ohio aren't getting the rain we are. Having to set things up in mud right now :-(  Took a break and saw your message. Here we go;

Open up any sequence. Possibly the last one you did in the season last year.

Go to edit.

Go down to Export Channel Configuration.

Create and name a new Channel Config.

Click on New sequence.

Create a Animation Sequence with ONE channel. Time and timings doesn't matter. Uncheck loops, you won't need them.

Now you have a 1:00.0 sequence with ONE channel in it.

Click on edit.

Go down to Import Channel Config.

Choose the Channel you created at the first. Open it up.

There then will be your channels...all where you put them.

Remember though. I had to use Vegomatic to combine everything. I think that is what your asking for.

[gmac]

Thank You......... for taking the time to explain so even us slow learners understand this