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portcity_gt

strang gfi problem.....

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Kinda like a politician.

Says everything is fine, but you know better.

Do you know if it's tripping the same time each day?

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No, i wish i had an analog plug in clock so id know.

Ill probably swap the gfci and fo from there, being it trips with ac and dc controllers.

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Well i pulled the cover and apparently i did put the grounds on the neutral bus,

So i moved them to the earth ground (i know its cheesy until i can get a tap) to see if that helps.

Also i reset the gfci after i tested earlier and when i went back out it was tripped....so sometime between 5:45 and 6:30 today.

20150904_183909_zpsahwlujjx.jpg

20150904_184738_zpsr35dfrqx.jpg

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I think all neautrals and grounds are on the same bar in the breaker box.

I remember it being a little odd when i installed a new heatpump/a/c, in fact i bought a 10' groung rod at that time but haven't got aound to installing it, i was going to put 5' at the service drop and 5' at the a/c' breaker box.

ill pull the cover off the breaker box and post i pic soon as i can.

Please connect the bare wires to the neutral buss.  That is the correct way to wire the GFI's. You do not need to connect them to the grounding electrode conductor. If you don't have a ground rod at your service, add the 10' foot rod to the service equipment, and don't cut it in half and put one at the AC disconnect.  A ground rod is only required at the service. A rod is required to have 8 ft in contact with the earth.  IMO you made things worse by twisting the wires in an attempt to attach them to a grounding electrode and making a connection outside the panel. (I am making the assumption that this picture is your main electrical service).

Edited by steve synek

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I know the rod isnt required at the a/c breaker box, i would just like to have one there too, the a/c is about 100 feet from the drop (a lot of wire that could break) and its breaker box also suplys some outlets on the rear deck.

I have no intention of leaving the wires just coming out of the box like that....this is all just testing things at the moment.

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I agree with Steve, put your branch ground wires back onto the neutral buss. You could run wires from the new ground rod to the neutral buss, but don't remove any of the branch neutral and ground wires. Most new installs have the ground jumpered to the neutral anyway. Not sure about LA codes, but is normally a common practice most places.

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Also, I don't see that the neutral / ground bar is bonded to the box anywhere. It might be & I just can't see it in the picture. It doesn't necessarily have to be bonded to work, just don't go grabbing that cover with dew on the ground. If a critter decides to eat some insulation of a hot wire, may not fry him - but could fry you. If box is bonded to ground, will fry him and should trip breaker.

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My thinking is if this temporary ground fixes the gfci issue there might be insufficient ground going to the neutral buss, and ill address that.

The ground wire coming up the pole goes into the meter, and the meter box is connected to the breaker box with metal conduit. Im not sure if the neutral buss is electrically connected to the box or not.

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... The ground wire coming up the pole goes into the meter, and the meter box is connected to the breaker box with metal conduit. .....

That metal conduit wasn't showing in any of these pictures. That will suffice for grounding the enclosure. So takes us back to the tripping.... Which stinks...

Since you are only using at night, and the tripping isn't occurring until the next day, you might try using a timer between the GFCIs and your controller. GFCI just might not like the constant slow leak of electronics being on without draining any power. Kinda like the half wave lights needing snubbers on gen 1 controllers. That would be an easy check right now when there's only 1 controller hooked up. I don't really know either, just trying to work through it...

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No, you said fan stays on. That should negate the previous thought.

Have you plugged into the other circuit and had the tripping the next day too?

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Yes both sides will trip.

I just checked...and it did NOT trip last night, now to see if it makes it to 8pm

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great. what did you do differently yesterday?

were they still grounded directly to the ground wire on the pole?

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Well, looks like you only pulled the neutral into this breaker box. For grounding the enclosure, that metal conduit should be fine. But like your recent deduction, I'm with you. With your grounding outside the enclosure to the bare wire and not tripping the GFCI, you may have found it. I would try to pull a ground wire from the other box's ground into this breaker box and put it on the neutral bar too. Or, using a proper clamp, tap off that ground wire on the pole and take it into the breaker box similar to the receptacle grounds you temporarily did. But all individual circuit grounds need to be inside the box. If you have a neutral break, electrons could be flowing through the ground wire...

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The other box that the ground is going into is the meter, so thats a no go.

Im thinking ill install my new ground rod and run a 6 gauge from it into the breaker box and either connect it to the neutral buss and the box ......or adding a separate ground buss in the box for all the grounds.

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And just to clarify, the breaker box was already there, i didnt install any of that.

It supplies the house, the outside a/c, and my shop.

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Port,

 

How did you attach the wires to your receptacles?  Did you "backstab" them in to the holes on the backside of the receptacles or use the screw connections? The "backstab" connections are notorious for making poor contact.

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Port,

How did you attach the wires to your receptacles? Did you "backstab" them in to the holes on the backside of the receptacles or use the screw connections? The "backstab" connections are notorious for making poor contact.

It was a year ago so its kinda fuzzy.....but im pretty sure i would have used the screw terminals for that reason.

But in any case....it looks like my neural buss bar isnt grounded and thats whats causing the issue. Now i just have to diside if i want to ground my neutral buss or add a ground buss...i assume either would be safe, and really ones no more work or money than the other.

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I wouldn't spend the money for another ground buss, even if it is only $8. Just run the ground wire to the neutral bar that's already there.

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I am not seeing how an ungrounded neutral would case a GFI to trip.  I am not saying that is not your problem, it just doesn't make sense to me.

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I am not seeing how an ungrounded neutral would case a GFI to trip. I am not saying that is not your problem, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah - shouldn't and doesn't are not always the same. All the AC string guys just have 2-wire light strings. But when you start running DC electronics that include the ground, well humm.

Again, I agree with you in theory, but since his test proved not to trip, add the ground. It's cheap. If it doesn't fix it, didn't spend 2 arms in the process.

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When testing, are you finding only the "in use" GFCI tripped, or are both tripped? 

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When testing, are you finding only the "in use" GFCI tripped, or are both tripped?

Only the bank with something plugged into it is tripping....dosnt seem to matter whats plugged into it, it still trips.....but the odd thing is its not tripping while in use, its when the controller is off.

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Also, we may be jumping the gun....it still could trip between now and show time.

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