RGB (Need opinions)

[ebrown1972]

I know. Opinions are like armpits. We all have them and they stink. Anyway I hope this is a good place to post this. This will be my 4th year with LOR. The first year was 16 channels and then 32 and last year 48. This year I decided to try out pixels and added one more 16 channel controller. I will have 2464 channels total. I will have a 12 ccp string tree and 2 leaping arches with 50 ccp's each and 2 circles with 50 ccp's each. The more I read the more I see most seem to shy away from LOR when it comes to RGB. I hear plenty of people say that LOR is expensive in this category and to go with more of the DIY things out there.

 

I am asking for opinions on why it might be a good idea to go RGB instead of pixels. What is the advantage to RGB over pixels other than cost? If I stick with LOR and pixels and double the amount I have this year come next year will I run into problems such as lag? Is S4 along with the pixel editor the way to go now and did it take care of most problems with large channel counts? I just need some input on what most of you think that have experience in both RGB and pixels.

 

With all these questions I have, I do love LOR. I think they have a great product with the best warranty and customer support of anyone out there. I'm just trying to decide if I try my hand at RGB next year.

 

Thanks for all the input.

[jerrymac]

What are you calling RGB?   Pixels are RGB.   Typically the RGB term lends toward dumb (basic) pixels where all in a string do the same thing at the same time and only consume 3 channels, but all pixel types that use 3 pixels to produce color (red/green/blue) are RGB.  Smart pixels /ribbons allow each pixel to respond to a different command at the same time and are closer together than strings and are more directional.   Pixels come in many different configurations  (ribbons, strings, modules etc).  CCR, CCB and CCP's are all RGB, distance between pixels typically run from 3 to 4 inches (of course you can zip tye them closer together if you prefer) and are less directional.

Ribbons typically work best in straight line setup (roof line, fence line matrix's etc) but are fragile and do NOT bend well along there axis.  Pixel strings are much more flexible and very strong.

If you want excellent quality, service and ease of use then the LOR RGB devices are hard to beat (a bit on the higher end of the cost structure).  

Other US providers have like devices with quality service and product but you must rely on the DYI concept for setup, control etc.  

China has what is generally the lowest price (but not always) and the service is ALL over the spectrum as well as the quality (some good some bad and some horrible) as well as what are you going to do when they don't come out as expected or advertised and post sale customer service almost does not exist.

[ebrown1972]

Yes i am speaking of diy rgb. I know lor pixels are rgb but it seems like everything I read people say to stay away from lor rgb due to cost. It seems like everything I read says go with sandevice controllers. I want to know what the advantage is with these type devices over lor? I plan on expanding even more next year as far as pixels but I am wanting some insight as most seem to think that dyi is the way to go. Other than cost I want to know what the advantages are?

[ItsMeBobO]

You are doing the right thing to read all the ideas and ways people enjoy this hobby.  Nothing wrong with being proud of saving money with diy stuff.   I want to put in a vote for saving time and aggravation with LOR plug and play stuff.   I was one of the people who complained here about lag on large lor pixel count displays two years ago.  But now I am satisfied with the various upgrades to network speed and software.   My suggestion is to try what you wish small and see if it works out.  If you like this hobby you will want to add more and it does not have to be the same kind of light.

[Jeff Messer]

+1 with BobO. I use have used LOR for almost 10 years and I do own a copy of another software. LOR and its support make me stick with the winner. I do use other software to create images and gifs on my display which has increased each year to a point I am starting to worry. The PE should be what I need to learn and understand but wish to see a few upgrades in it. At just over 45,000 channels I see it would help in the long run. I like watching videos to learn and reading does not do it for me. Pick something you like, pay for it and stick with it as this will be your cheapest way out.

 

Jeff

Edited September 2, 2015 by Jeff Messer

[LOR Staff]

I moved this message because it was not explicitly about E1.31.  No harm, no foul, just keeping the forum clean

[ebrown1972]

That's cool. I wasn't sure where to post it at. Now I know.

[LOR Staff]

That's cool. I wasn't sure where to post it at. Now I know.

No problem.  I would rather you post in the wrong forum and let us decide where it should go than for you to not post at all.  Even I had a hard time deciding if this should go in LOR Hardware General, or General Decorating Questions

[jstorms]

The trickiest part about RGB is the vast number of options and how much sweat equity do you want to apply?

 

If you have time to experiment, solder on pigtails, and screw controllers into enclosures then you can save some really good bling by doing some DIY. And lots of people do this and save $$$ and have great displays.

 

At the same time, if you don't have the time to put into it, or don't have time to come up to speed on some key skills (soldering, basic electronics/electricity, and damn you voltage drop) then the LOR option is a great option. Gives you a complete solution, but it costs money, because it has value.

 

Good news is you can start small, grow over time, plus mix and match LOR and DIY.

[jrock_at_rons]

Piggybacking off what John said, there are pros/cons to LOR vs. DIY for RGB.  I took both roads to expand my display this year.  I got the LOR RGB 10W floods... took me all of about 20 minutes to unpack, set it up, plug it in and test.   On the other hand, I'm building a set of 9 RGB snowflakes with HC RGB modules from scratch... I'm about 5 hours in and have completed 2 of them (this includes building the board, mounting, etc.).  

 

I know its not an apples to apples comparison, but there are both time and money advantages to both. 

[khawes]

I've got 2 sets of CCBs (200 pixels total) that I line my eves with.  I've had them for 3 years now and strand has gone bad and was replaced by LOR in days.  in Pixels "Bad" has a lot of manifestations,  In this case  one bulb of 50 did not show blue. 

 

Contrast the above with my 12x50 pixel tree made with Chinese pixels and a San Devices controller.  Love the controller no problems with it.   Two seasons ago  (the first season) the brand new pixels started to go bad within a week of setting up.  Bad in this case means a pixel goes rogue and does what ever it wants, and sends random commands down the line to the rest of the pixels.   I replaced 4 entire strings... Take the tree down, cur 100 zip ties per string, reapply 100 zip ties per string put tree up.  All was good for another week when a few went rogue again, These I cut out and soldered in replacement.   Last season (season 2) I was replacing between 3 and 10 pixels a day.  Take the tree down, determine if the first misbehaving pixel was the bad one or if it was the prior one sending bad commands, cut, solder, put back up.   I was ready to drop some cash to end my frustration. First I contacted the supplier to ask how rev 2 of the pixels were holding up, it turned out the batch I purchased had some serious manufacturing defects, and I was sent a complete set of replacements (nice). However the replacements did not have the custom pigtails that match the san devices, so I paid for new matching pigtails.  A week later the pixels left China and 2 days later they were on my porch, the following weekend (last one before tear down) I replaced 8 of the 12 strands and all has been well with those 8, the other 4 lasted 4 days and went south.  3 days later was new years and down came the tree.   

 

If all goes well this year I'll have saved about $1,000 on the LOR solution BUT spent hours upon hours frustrated.  

 

In similar news we are not alone I attended a talk about the SF bay bridge lights, and the management of the installation of their dimable white pixels.  They have been though the same issues so we are not alone.  Of course replacing pixels meant they had to close a lane of traffic and hoist  electricians up 250 feet.  Phillips has completely redesigned their Pixels and they've had a string in salt water for months now without failure.   the bridge lights had to be removed for painting, so the new designed lights will go back up when that is done. By the way they use UV rated zip ties just like we do.  

[EmmienLightFan]

Both are RGB

 

LOR's RGB stuff can be called RGB, and DIY stuff can be called DMX or E1.31. That way is less confusing.

[LOR Staff]

Both are RGB

 

LOR's RGB stuff can be called RGB, and DIY stuff can be called DMX or E1.31. That way is less confusing.

And completely wrong, unfortunately.

 

RGB is RGB.  Pixels are Pixels.  DMX is DMX and E1.31 is E1.31.

 

RGB = A method of mixing the colors Red, Green, Blue to create all other colors.

Pixels = Individually controlled sources of light.  Pixels are usually on strings.  Each bulb on a string is controllable, and each bulb is also RGB.

DMX = A signalling system/protocol that allows data to be sent to lighting controllers.

E1.31 = A system that allows for DMX data to be wrapped with additional data and be transmitted via LAN.  The destination removes the E1.31 wrapping leaving DMX data.

[BluMan]

This is the kind of thread that I can understand.  Being in the same boat as ebrown1972, I started with two 16 channel residential boxes to controll simple string lights.  Then I moved to four boxes.  Now, that I'm a bit hooked, I purchased my first smart pixel controller (PixCon16).  Now I need to buy the pixels and because of the sheer number of options, I'm completely confused on what direction I want to go.  All these different IC types I don't know if I'm buying a technology that's on it's way out or if I'm buying a new type of IC that doesn't have all the support it needs.  Trying to future proof your purchase decisions makes me feel like I'm running on very rough pavement and constantly looking out for potholes.

 

Then, toss in my lack of simple skills, like soldering.  I've never done it but I know I'll need to in the future so I don't have to keep asking someone to do it for me.  I go to try and buy a soldering iron, OH look, 15 different varieties.  Now I don't even know which one I should buy and what kind of tip.

 

I want to so bad swim in the smart pixel waters but I feel like I've jumped off this long pier into water so deep that I fear I will drown at any moment.

 

BTW, I wanted to use the PixCon16 to do an outline of my house but I'm not even sure I can do that....just so confused.

 

I wish there was a thread on this forum for people to see where people who want to help live and then you could ask them if they had some time to "educate" others on how to do things.  Show me how to fish, and I will fish for life.  Tell me how to fish, and I'll forget before I even hit the post button!

[Dennis Laff]

Where do you live in Indiana I live in Burbank il just outside of Chicago il what are you trying to accomplish his year with pixels ?

[BluMan]

Where do you live in Indiana I live in Burbank il just outside of Chicago il what are you trying to accomplish his year with pixels ?

I live in Saint John, just about 2 miles from the Illinois state line.  I'm trying to get my house outlined with smart strips but I don't know really how to start.  I know I can measure the parts I want to cover and around the windows but I don't understand how to turn the corners around the windows.  People say just outline the windows and I'm thinking "Are the strips always exactly the correct length?"  or if I have to cut them, wouldn't taking three inches off of them to cut them at the seam make them too short?  I also purchased the 10w flood package since that seems a quick way for me to integrate RGB into my very simple show at this point.

 

My show, for the lack of a better term, consists of nothing more than a handmade arch made out of PVC that goes the length of the front sidewalk up to the front porch.  It's really not much at all but, for me, it took me a month just to create the thing.  I would like to expand on it year after year and incorporate more of the house as I grow.

 

I'd actually post a short video of what I've done (so pathetic I'd be actually embarassed) but I haven't firgured out how to do that yet. haha!  Super N00B!!

[Dennis Laff]

On all ccr type strips there is a cut line where you can cut them you will have to cut them to length closest to the cut line for the length you need at each corner you need to solder a couple inchs of wire so you can turn the corner and connect the next strip did you buy the pixcon controller yet that might not be the best choice for doing the roofline because there is a recommended distance from controller to first pixel of I think it's around 7 feet for that controller. You might consider using lor ccr's because the controller is with each strip. Are you close to Schilling lumber I bought decking their so where about 35 miles apart

[BluMan]

Schilling lumber is like 3 minutes from my house.

 

I'm glad you brought that up as well, I've read 7, 15, 35 feet on here about the distance from the controller to the first pixel in the strip.  Actually, the way my house is built, from the front covered porch, I could probably get to almost all the eves but the roofline would be a problem.  I've already bought the PixCon controller but I'm not opposed to using it for something else.  See, first major purchase, and probably a bad one.  Frustration level +1.

 

The problem I have with LOR CCR's is strickly the amount of money for 1 strip!!  I realize that I have to put out some money but that's like the most expensive option I've seen.  To outline my house at $250 a strip would take me YEARS and if I bought those, I'd also be single!  There simply has to be a way to do what all these videos are showing for less than $250 a strip, there just has to be.

[Dennis Laff]

there are may strips to buy that will work you could try the longest distance from controller to first pixel with extension wire many people say 20 feet is ok just this week someone said 80 feet worked for them  you 'll just have to test on your own  another option is the Joshua 1 Systems controller ECG-2 its a small controller that will handle 2 universes

[BluMan]

Yeah, it appears that that's what I'll need to do.  I really really appreciate you offering advice as your helping me take muddy water and clearing it up.  Not to knock anyone on the boards or in the scene but most of the videos start out simple enough but when it gets down to connectivity, most videos just wave the magic wand and take you to what it looks like when done.

 

I'll take baby steps for sure but my mission is to try and make this hobby as affordable as I can.

 

Ever heard of the Teensy 3.1 microcontroller?  There is a guy on instrucables (jon0tron) who uses one of these controllers (the size of stick of gum) to control his smart RGB light strips.  This little card, according to him, can handle over 4000 pixels!!!  Now, currently it's running some other type of OS but it's programmable and, get this, under $20!!!  With all this technology and brain power we have out there, somehow we can make all this cheaper.

 

At this point, I know I have to eat the same grass as the other enthuasts trying to do the same thing as me but I keep looking at that other field and thinking maybe I figure out a path that way.  ha!  Sorry me an analogies.