CTB16 DMX Question

[godman]

If I want to convert my LOR to DMX, Are there any changes that need to be made to the controller itself?

 

Am I correct in assuming that the only thing necessary to convert to DMX is done within the sequence itself (sequential numbering) and nothing to do with the CTB16 controller.

 

If I change to DMX do I still need the LOR Dongle or do I just use the E1.31 from my Ethernet port to the first LOR controller and then daisy chain as normal??

 

Am I understanding correctly.

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited July 20, 2015 by godman

[k6ccc]

The controller does not require any changes.

 

As for the physical connectivity, you have two basic choices.  One is to use a USB dongle that is outputting DMX.  The other option is to use E1.31 to an E1.31 controller (such as a SanDevices board) and then have it output DMX to your controllers.  You CAN NOT connect your controllers to the ethernet port of your computer unless you wish to risk letting the magic smoke out of something.  As I don't use DMX, I have never used either method.  You can use LOR dongle, but there have been reports of some issues.  A little research on the forum should help with that.

[k6ccc]

Just because I happened to have a CMB16D 16 channel DC controller with my light test board connected and sitting on my desk, I changed a simple sequence to 24 channels of DMX rather than LOR network using a LOR high speed USB adapter.  It worked exactly as it did under LOR protocol.

[godman]

So to use DMX with the LOR controllers I need to first run from Ethernet port to my DMX controller then I can daisy chain the rest of the LOR controllers?

[k6ccc]

If you are using DMX from an RS-485 output of an E1.31 controller, yes it would be Ethernet from your PC carrying E1.31 to the E1.31 controller, then DMX from a DMX RS-485 output to your first LOR controller and then daisy chained to your other LOR controllers (operating in DMX mode).

[godman]

daisy chained to your other LOR controllers (operating in DMX mode).

Little confused by the quote above, I thought there was nothing I needed to do to the controllers to run them in DMX mode?

[k6ccc]

Sorry to confuse you.  I was just pointing out that the LOR controller would be operating in DMX mode - not that you have to do anything to the controller.

[Dennis Laff]

You also need to give each controller a DMX address and a crossover cable

[godman]

You also need to give each controller a DMX address and a crossover cable

What do you mean give each LOR controller a DMX Address? Can you explain?

Edited July 20, 2015 by godman

[k6ccc]

As for a crossover cable, it depends. If you are using LOR

controllers and a LOR RS-485 adapter, you would use a straight

cable (as I did for my test above). If you are using a DMX

RS-485 adapter, you may likely need a crossover. As I said

earlier, I don't do anything with DMX so I'm not the expert

on that one.

Just as you need to set the unit ID for a LOR controller

(either with switches or the Hardware Utility - depending on the

controller), you need to tell the LOR controller what DMX

address to respond to. The same process is used, except that

there is a translation table. I copied this from the CCP

manual, but the concept is the same for others.

Appendix A

LOR Unit ID to DMX Address Table

The Hardware Utility is used to set the Unit ID of the

controller. See the section Assigning a Unit ID for

more information. The controller must be set to one

of the LOR Unit IDs listed in the following table to

recognize DMX protocol. E.g. setting the LOR Unit

ID to “06” will result in the first DMX address for the

controller being 81.

LOR UnitID DMX Address

“01” 1

“02” 17

“03” 33

“04” 49

“05” 54

“06” 81

“07” 97

“08” 113

“09” 129

“0A” 145

“0B” 161

“0C” 177

“0D” 193

“0E” 209

“0F” 225

“10” 241

“11” 257

“12” 273

“13” 289

“14” 305

“15” 321

“16” 337

“17” 353

“18” 369

“19” 385

“1A” 401

“1B” 417

“1C” 433

“1D” 449

“1E” 465

“1F” 481

“20” 497

Hopefully the forum did not screw up the formatting...

It did, but you should still be able to read it.

Edited July 20, 2015 by k6ccc

[Dennis Laff]

ON a standard controller unit id would be 1 that will give 16 channels when you switch to DMX  the Dmx address for your first unit will still be 1 and give you 16 channels but on your next unit for DMX the start channel will now be  17   third unit will be start channel 33 fourth   will be start channel 49  and keep going by 16 till you hit last start address of 497 for 1 universe

[godman]

Ok, I got the addressing down, If I'm running multiple LOR controllers and Multiple DMX Controllers (San Devices, PixLite etc) does it matter where they go in the daisy chain of controllers? Last year I kept LOR on the RS-485 Adapter and ran my other controllers on E1.31. I would like to keep them all on the same thing this year if possible:

 

A couple of questions:

1. If I use the RS-485 adapter from LOR I can run it to the first LOR unit then daisy chain to any other type of controller (san devises etc)?
2. If I use E1.31 do I run the Ethernet cable from my computer to the first San Devices controller and them the normal cat 5 to all the other controllers (LOR or San Device) or do I need to use a crossover cable between an LOR controller and San Device controller?
3. Which scenario is better, the RS-485 or a on E1.31?

Thanks I'm slowly getting it.

 

Greg

[k6ccc]

A couple of questions:

1. If I use the RS-485 adapter from LOR I can run it to the first LOR unit then daisy chain to any other type of controller (san devises etc)?
2. If I use E1.31 do I run the Ethernet cable from my computer to the first San Devices controller and them the normal cat 5 to all the other controllers (LOR or San Device) or do I need to use a crossover cable between an LOR controller and San Device controller?
3. Which scenario is better, the RS-485 or a on E1.31?

Thanks I'm slowly getting it.

 

Greg

 

Not quite.  Yes it confuses people because we run both ethernet and RS-485 over the same cable type, but NEVER the two shall meet.

 

The LOR RS-485 adapter (or any other DMX dongle) outputs RS-485 serial data.  Some use Cat-5 cable and a lot of DMX stuff uses XLR connectors (particularly professional stuff). 

 

E1.31 devices communicate over an ethernet LAN.  For the purposes of this discussion, this is always done via Cat-5 (or 6) cable.

 

Many E1.31 controllers have the ability to output DMX data over a RS-485 serial connection - including the SanDevices controllers.  As far as I can tell, this is what you are trying to do.  Here are a couple diagrams that should help.

 

Assuming you are using a single DMX universe that is being driver by a SanDevices controller:

 

PC  -- ethernet -->  E682  -- RS-485 -->  LOR controller  -- RS-485 -->  LOR controller  -- RS-485 -->  LOR controller  -- RS-485 -->  Terminator

 

If there are multiple DMX universes being driven by the E682, each universe will be on a separate output from the E682, but will otherwise look the same.

 

Assuming there will be more than one E682, a network switch will be required:

 

PC  -- eithernet -->  LAN switch  -- ethernet -->  E682  -- RS-485 -->  LOR controller  -- RS-485 -->  LOR controller  -- RS-485 -->  Terminator

The second E682 will connect to a different port on the LAN switch.

 

Make sense?

[godman]

OK Got most of that, I will have multiple 682 controllers so the second explanation in the one I'll  need.

 

If I understand correctly I can run one 682 in line with the LOR controllers (first in line) and any others must be from another port to the switch

 

So after the first san Device controller from the switch, I would need a new RS 485 cable to connect each controller after that? Could I just use cat 5 to daisy chain the LOR controllers?

 

What Is a terminator?

[Dennis Laff]

If you use the lor USB rs485 dongle you will get DMX out of the lor 16 channel ac controllers but if you want to connect those controllers to any DMX cards you need a crossover cable. (Holiday Coro seels them). Now to connect your lor 16 channel to the DMX output of the E682 you need just the crossover cable from the E682 to the lor 16 channel controller from their just cat 5 or 6 cable

[zman]

Is there a reason you want to run your LOR controllers in DMX mode? In DMX you lose Twinkle and Shimmer. You can have an LOR network side by side with an E1.31. Sometimes for simplicity sake, this is easiest, and eliminates your cross over cables from your E682 to your first LOR controller.

 

A terminator is a 120ohm .5W resistor at the end of the DMX Universe chain. It prevents reflection from your last DMX fixture (LOR Controller or other) and erroneous false signals. Some will tell you they get by without, BUT, if you have problems this is usually the first point of the problem. Better to be safe than sorry especially with CAT5 connections.

 

E1.31 requires connection to an RJ45 network port on your computer. If you jump off an E682 for DMX, no RS485 is needed.

 

If you want to run DMX straight from LOR, you have to run through a DMX dongle of some sort. The RS485 can be your DMX dongle.

 

The LOR controllers listen for whatever signal it is being sent. Assuming the proper connections, if it senses LOR that is what it reacts to. If it senses DMX, that is what it reacts to.

 

The reason for the DMX conversion chart listed above, is that LOR is Hexidecimal, and DMX is not.

Edited July 21, 2015 by zman

[godman]

Thanks Mark, I appreciate the input.

 

I am just trying to gain some knowledge about DMX and how it works within an LOR world. Last year I ran 2 Joshua1 P12s controllers off of E1.31 but never heard of a terminator and didn't seem to have any issues that I'm aware of.

 

Does the terminator apply to these controller cards as well?

 

Thanks for the great info!

[k6ccc]

According to spec, a terminator SHOULD be used on both ends of every RS-485 system.  In reality in many situations you will be able to get away without it.  For a simple RS-485 system you should not have a problem without a terminator, however if you have a complex system with long cable lengths (remember the RS-485 standard allows up to 4,000 feet), and higher data rates, a terminator will more likely become a requirement.  There is a nice video on somebody's website that explains it pretty well.

[zman]

As Jim stated, you should do it for all instances. On my traditional DMX universe, I use a terminator on the end of that chain. Within my E1.31 world, I and almost everyone has not. That may be because it is built in, but I am not certain of that.

[jstorms]

Video from Holiday Coro 

 

So I see the following online where you can by an RJ45 terminator (they also have 3 pin XLR too). Would this work?

http://www.stagelightingstore.com/Doug-Fleenor-DMX512-Terminator

 

Wiring diagram of the above.

http://www.stagelightingstore.com/core/media/media.nl/id.59876/c.689066/.f?h=490603f0814a6a88dfe8

Edited July 21, 2015 by jstorms