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Something I have noticed.. about sharing things.


Old Sarge

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None of the conversion software is supported by any of the video sites that can convert the audio from a video to MP3 format {or other formats}.   There are a lot of FREE software programs out there that do this, but NONE, NOT ONE are supported by the video sites.    If they were, they'd have a link directly from each video to access the online converters for doing these conversions, since no such link exists on the site videos, that should tell one the video service sites DO NOT SUPPORT THEM!

 

However, they know they are used, I use one myself, not an online one, but I use it for when a song is NO LONGER AVAILABLE for purchase anywhere, or if a specific song from a movie isn't on the soundtrack and not available, then I use them to get those music files.   Most often I purchase all my music from various sources, sometimes I use these MP3 converters to get a song or songs so I can work on it/them, then buy the music when the funds are in the bank.

 

Got to admit I do have a lot of music that is what they call "out of print" and can no longer be purchased, so the music moguls really leave us little choice but to obtain a song in "heist fashion" when they no longer sell it.   But even if they don't, they can still come after a person that obtained it and uses it illegally.

 

Fortunately most tend to "overlook" it when we obtain "out of print" songs and use them in our Halloween or Christmas displays, after all, how can we buy our own legal copy when it's no longer available for purchase?   Not saying it's right, but many of us do it when it comes down to not being able to purchase the song from places like CD Baby, ITunes, etc. and resort to YouTube and these MP3 converter programs, providing we can even find the song/music there.

Edited by Orville
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You can "record" a song and use it for your own purpose as long as you do not sell it or use it for monetary gain, or obtain it from P2P networks that someone ELSE has. Just like the old days when you could record songs off the radio with tape. AAH!... the good old days of making "mix" tapes as a teenager. Even on the flip side when you record a program with old school VHS or new school DVR. It is all legal. The converters that are online such as the You Tube one are legal because you are recording them in "real time" NOT "downloading" That is why these "converters" are legal and pose no legal threats to the average Joe like me who may use them from time to time. 

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Many thanks to BMurray for his post
 
 
There are enough Grinches out there already. I just don't want to be one myself..

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How about the records, and tapes I bought 30,40,50 60 years ago and copied them onto my computer?

 

It was LEGALLY PURCHASED MUSIC... I don't have receipts etc. for them..

 

Does That Make It Illegal For Me to use them because they weren't made to play on a Computer or I didn't buy them on line... 

 

I did purchase the program I use to convert them to copy on to my computer and change the format to MP3 , Wave, MP4 etc. Does that mean I have ILLEGAL music now?? They were not made to play on a computer and  I Cannot Show the RECEIPT where I Legally Purchased them....

 

But Now Days WHO CAN SHOW RECEIPTS FOR EVERY CD/DVD THEY HAVE PURCHASED? I would really not like to meet that person because I think there is a mental problem there for saving and making copies of so many receipts because of the disappearing ink most places use now days for receipts.

 

Isn't it wonderful how this post changed from being about how many people never say thanks for things that are freely shared with them to Using ILLEGAL MUSIC.... hahaha

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I have always considered (hopefully correctly) that music I have purchased is ok for me to use in things like my Christmas sequences as long as I'm not making money from it.  This would include LPs, tapes, CDs, or downloaded music; as long as I purchased it. 

Edited by tomsusie
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I've put my songs online and when someone is asking I can post a link to where they can download.  Others will see the link and download too.  I don't track the number of downloads so I don't know who's not thanking me.  Removes the possibility of stressing over not being thanked. :) 

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Sarge,

You said you like to stir "stuff" up. It seems we have done that on the illegal music issue.

 

I just like it when people freely share without anyone making attempts to put up roadblocks.

 

I wonder if I share "audacity project files" that contain music that can be converted to MP3 and respective sequence timings will I get in trouble with the principle?

 

By the way, thanks again to ALL who have freely shared their sequences and sometimes  times their music with me and many others.

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Don't know where or if the post still exists here on the LOR Forums, but this has been an ongoing issue for many years now, but "The Demented Elf" actually contacted music companies and got the scoop on how "WE", the "Holiday Decorators" use the music in our displays, which is legal and no contracts or fees needed UNLESS you charge folks to watch the show or, if I believe it's on a business property, then that makes a difference.    

 

However, NONE of us own the rights to any of the music we purchase, that belongs to the recording companies or private individual artists if they self promote their works, like on CD Baby.   Even those old reel to reel recordings from radio could still be considered illegal, along with 8 track tapes, cassettes, CD's, etc. recorded directly from radio, TV or DVD for that matter.    I know I still have old 33-1/3, 45 and even some 78RPM records, along with Cassette and VHS tapes that have music on them, I own the media the music is on, just not the audio or video track{in the case of VHS or DVD's}

 

Not trying to be a Grinch, just telling you the way it is, and there could be legal issues when sharing music today, why do you think they went after the original music sharing site?  Fined them extensively,  and closed them down?   Anyone remember Napster?   That's whom the music industry went after and shut them down.   You could find all kinds of music there to download.

 

Just because you think recording in real time is okay, I'm sorry to inform, and yes, I have stated even I do it, it is illegal to copy/record another's works WITHOUT permission from the author or company that owns the works.   But as long as there are sites such as YouTube, there will be MP3 converters to convert the audio to MP3 or other audio formats for end users.   No matter how much the music industry doesn't like these converters, they are not ever going to disappear, at least I seriously doubt they ever will.

 

But one thing I try to do is get the artists permission to use their work{music/audio} in my display, sadly, though, that's not always possible either, so we take a chance.   And to be honest, I don't or can't recall anyone here that has had anyone tell them to remove a song from their display that used it.   But I might be in error, if some of the old timers that used to be here were still around, they knew more about what happened to fellow decorators doing this than I.

 

But honestly I  just can't think of any instance where anyone has gone after a private home decorator for using music in their displays, including many static displays in my area that have been around for 20+ years that also use music as background at their displays.

 

Unfortunately this is one topic that usually crops up every year close to and around this time of year, usually either  in  a thread such as this one about music rights and usage or in its own topic, and every year we seem to beat it to death too.

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If there is one thing we can all agree on (and this from a person who has been in the entertainment industry, as well as in the radio business).

 

Rights management SUCKS if you are the little guy.  

 

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that if there were an easy and price effective way to license music that everyone of you would.  But when rights mgmt cos like BMI ASCAP, SESAC  get their fingers in there they want large sums and unwieldy records keeping,

 

Imagine if there was a website that you could log on to and say 'I play THIS song x times per day, to an audience that averages Y people', and that site came back and said "No problem.  That's $.25".  You add all that stuff into a cart and pay.  Who wouldn't pay the artist their $5-$10 for the season, or whatever small sum?

 

No, instead you need to send applications to 3 (or more) rights management orgs, pay their MINIMUM LICENSE fee (which if I am not mistaken is around $350 EACH for BMI/ASCAP/SESAC), and then send them logs of day/time of each song played, revenue generated, etc.....

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and I wager that WHOLE system is cumbersome to bilk the artist out of their money...

 

But yes, it's going the same way in video, television shows etc.  I like to be able to buy my music.  I have emailed many artist official email links to ask WHERE CAN I BUY THIS and not even get a response! 

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:ph34r: ohhhhh and talking about Movies, Videos and shows etc.... NOOOO I dont have any copies I recorded onto my computer or onto VHS tape or anywhere else.... I payed for all my movies.... does that mean I can legally rip off errr copy errrr use the music and songs on them... i did Pay for it.... hahaha   ;)

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When I share I put it on an FTP site that way I don't have to spend extra time emailing to people. Sarge sent me some files that I really appreciated. One that I liked was it's a wonderful world by Louis Armstrong. Sarge you mentioned about getting criticism I was afraid to do so not wanting to hurt anybody's feelings. I took the file It's a Wonderful World and tweked the mouth movements to better fit the timing as well as the eye blinking. If you would like to see my modified file I would be more than happy to send it back to you. I also modified some of the mouth movements to make them look a little more natural in my opinion. I've also received some files from people who seem to be able to complete a sequence in one night. Then they're all too willing to share with everybody. I think this is done just to get recognition. I've received some of these files just to find them to be absolutely terrible. I do appreciate the people who put time into a sequence then are willing to share with others. I try to keep in mind that the quality of a sequence is all a matter of perspective.

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@arw01, yes, I know the feeling, same here.   if I can't get a reply, I use it and will post a video of the song I did.  Thus far, I haven't had any requests to remove any of mine from Vimeo, unlike Youboob which has silenced many a decorators video soundtrack or even completely removed it!

 

@Old Sarge, I HAVE recorded songs from DVD and VHS movies I own that WERE NOT on the soundtrack CD.  For example, Disney in their infinite wisdom DID NOT include the wonderful song sung by Sara Jessica Parker in the movie  Hocus Pocus, "Come Little Children", so I recorded it to my computer and been using it in my Halloween display for 4 years now, this will be the 5th!   Albeit it is not the complete song because of the extra chatting and other things going on while she sings it in the movie, it was a great opening song for my Halloween display, of which I also added a vocal Witch's Intro to it last year.  Will be using it this year too, since I have decided to start working on a Halloween display at my wifes' incessant prodding to do it....or else. LOL   

 

But since that recording IS NOT available for sale, not on the Soundtrack CD {Disney really missed the ball on that one by NOT including it}, I have given it to many folks that have requested it along with the sequence file.  But it is a very edited down version of the song.

 

@DEVMike, Can absolutely agree with you Mike.  I used to help produce, video events and interviews, then edit video and sound for a TV series for Brevard Community College in Melbourne, FL in the early 1980's called BCC Sunspots, it wasn't as stringent as it is today, but seeing this was produced for TV, we still had to get licenses and such, for any music that may be used in any of the videos we created.

Edited by Orville
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You can "record" a song and use it for your own purpose as long as you do not sell it or use it for monetary gain, or obtain it from P2P networks that someone ELSE has. Just like the old days when you could record songs off the radio with tape. AAH!... the good old days of making "mix" tapes as a teenager. Even on the flip side when you record a program with old school VHS or new school DVR. It is all legal. The converters that are online such as the You Tube one are legal because you are recording them in "real time" NOT "downloading" That is why these "converters" are legal and pose no legal threats to the average Joe like me who may use them from time to time. 

 

It was actually ILLEGAL to copy music from the radio to tape. What you are suggesting with converters is also illegal.  The converters claim to have purpose that does not include the illegal activity of "ripping" copyrighted music.

Edited by Dcroc
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If there is one thing we can all agree on (and this from a person who has been in the entertainment industry, as well as in the radio business).

 

Rights management SUCKS if you are the little guy.  

 

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that if there were an easy and price effective way to license music that everyone of you would.  But when rights mgmt cos like BMI ASCAP, SESAC  get their fingers in there they want large sums and unwieldy records keeping,

 

Imagine if there was a website that you could log on to and say 'I play THIS song x times per day, to an audience that averages Y people', and that site came back and said "No problem.  That's $.25".  You add all that stuff into a cart and pay.  Who wouldn't pay the artist their $5-$10 for the season, or whatever small sum?

 

No, instead you need to send applications to 3 (or more) rights management orgs, pay their MINIMUM LICENSE fee (which if I am not mistaken is around $350 EACH for BMI/ASCAP/SESAC), and then send them logs of day/time of each song played, revenue generated, etc.....

Would be curious to know how that works when the music is not included in the sequence sale?

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When I share I put it on an FTP site that way I don't have to spend extra time emailing to people. Sarge sent me some files that I really appreciated. One that I liked was it's a wonderful world by Louis Armstrong. Sarge you mentioned about getting criticism I was afraid to do so not wanting to hurt anybody's feelings. I took the file It's a Wonderful World and tweked the mouth movements to better fit the timing as well as the eye blinking. If you would like to see my modified file I would be more than happy to send it back to you. I also modified some of the mouth movements to make them look a little more natural in my opinion. I've also received some files from people who seem to be able to complete a sequence in one night. Then they're all too willing to share with everybody. I think this is done just to get recognition. I've received some of these files just to find them to be absolutely terrible. I do appreciate the people who put time into a sequence then are willing to share with others. I try to keep in mind that the quality of a sequence is all a matter of perspective.

I would love to check out the additions, tweeking you did..  Anything I make and share people are free to tweek and change etc.

 

I dont care what they do to it. especially when they can use part or all and make it better..

 

It was one of my first efforts and there was a lot of different sounds in it.. at making singing faces..

 

I dont spend a lot of time fine tuning them I guess I get bored listening to the same thing over and over because it took me a few days to do one song... hahaha...to much plus with my Military for over 30 years Mechanics and tankers hearing I do think I miss a lot of the sounds and things in the music and timings.

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[edit]

Sorry, can't post that link here.  There are MP3s in there and we can not facilitate downloads of MP3s or we'll get our behinds paddled.  Please remove the music and then re-post the link.

 

-Mike

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Would be curious to know how that works when the music is not included in the sequence sale?

 

For us, it's VERY easy.  We don't include the audio.  No license required :)  Those sequences work exactly the same without audio as with.  Now, what YOU do with the sequence is up to you.  You do the marriage not us.

 

Again, here is the stupidity of the rights management companies.  We would LOVE (let me say that again L-O-V-E) to include the audio with the sequence.  Not only could we hold our heads high and proclaim "LEGAL MUSIC INCLUDED!", we would know that artists were being paid.

 

We asked the rights orgs for a license to sell audio MP3s.  Sure they said.  We could have it for thousands upon thousands of simoleons, plus a per sale charge.  So much money that in fact we would never ever come close to making it back.  Ever wonder why there are only a couple of 'legal' places to buy music from?  ;)

 

We asked them 'Allow us to include the audio, and we will purchase as many copies as we sell from authorized places like Amazon'.  Our online store would make it easy:  We would purchase X copies of the MP3 IN ADVANCE, and then 'stock' the store with X copies of the sequence.  When we ran out of 'stock', we would purchase another batch in advance. NO they said.  MP3s from Amazon/etc were NOT FOR RESALE!

 

So here is what happens....  We could have been a (admittedly small) source of revenue for them.  Any sequence we sold would have a licensed copy of the audio included as there would be no way to purchase the sequence without it.  Instead, we sell it audio free, and make you get the MP3.  Now, where YOU get the audio from is your business.  While we don't condone it I will guarantee that at least one person out there has used a 'pirated' copy of audio rather than a licensed one.

 

Even when you WANT to do the right thing, they make it so prohibitively expensive you can't play unless you are a BIG BOY.  

 

Thankfully we have some artists (like Judy Pancost) who like what we do and who have directly licensed their music to us.  Otherwise when dealing with the RIAA and it's cronies, it's pony up or shut up.

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[edit]

Sorry, can't post that link here. There are MP3s in there and we can not facilitate downloads of MP3s or we'll get our behinds paddled. Please remove the music and then re-post the link.

-Mike

thank you sir may I have another. ( Animal House reference). Sarge I emailed you the link.
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