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jerrywolfer

S4 with pixels and music without Superstar

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I'm new to using Pixels.

Read most all of the posts here but still not sure if S4 with out Superstar ($200) is for me.

I will have about 2500 DMX channels.

 

Using LOR E1.31 out to SanDevices E6804s.

No Superstar software (SS). And I don't know if SS even does Pixels other than the CCRs.

Do I understand that S4 Visualizer will import Pixels(RGB channels) from S4 sequencer making it much easier to program pixels?

Will S4 Visualizer import my music files to auto synchronize with Pixels somewhat like SS ?

Using S3 Visualizer for programing Pixels is a very long tedious task and synchronizing to music (for me anyway) has been almost impossible.

 

Anyone available to help me understand if S4 can help me with easier programing Pixels and synchronizing with music?

 

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First, Superstar will do your RGB channels and your regular channels. Second, 2500 DMX channels will be difficult and very time consuming in S4 and, as you have already found, S3, using the Sequence editor.

 

The Pixel Editor is somewhat cumbersome to me, but I have not dug into it very far yet.

 

My analogy for Superstar is this, if you're going to build a 200' fence, you're not going to use a hand saw, are you? No, you'll go to a hardware store to buy a circular saw or even a table saw. Same here, if you want to do RGB Basic and RGB pixels, you need have the right tool for the job.

 

I'm not saying you need Superstar, but it sure makes fast work of building that fence.

 

Just a few thoughts to ponder.

Edited by Ron Boyd

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I will add that superstar is not just for pixels.

Yes, I have pixels, CCRs,dmx dumb rgb but I also have AC and non rgb DC channels that I program using superstar.

Superstar has features that aid in your sequencing that is far easier than the sequencer in s3. S4 is same sequencer.

Once I started using superstar, I never use the sequence editor again.

S4 pixel editor will add effects. But there are several "rules" you must follow. Rule 1 is you can not program the same element in PE and se at the same time. So, if I want to program my pixels, I must do so as in effect in PE, or as a sequence using the SE. Or I can use SS. But I can not combine PE and SE/SS.

SS and SE can be used in conjunction still.

Download the sw. Test. You can do all this for free. Find what works for you then make the purchase.

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I will add that superstar is not just for pixels.

Yes, I have pixels, CCRs,dmx dumb rgb but I also have AC and non rgb DC channels that I program using superstar.

Superstar has features that aid in your sequencing that is far easier than the sequencer in s3. S4 is same sequencer.

Once I started using superstar, I never use the sequence editor again.

S4 pixel editor will add effects. But there are several "rules" you must follow. Rule 1 is you can not program the same element in PE and se at the same time. So, if I want to program my pixels, I must do so as in effect in PE, or as a sequence using the SE. Or I can use SS. But I can not combine PE and SE/SS.

SS and SE can be used in conjunction still.

Download the sw. Test. You can do all this for free. Find what works for you then make the purchase.

Will we be able to combine PE and SE/SS to program the same element in the future?  I like some of the effects in PE and would like to combine them with Superstar effects to control the same element/fixture in SE. 

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Thanks Ron and Sax for your valuable advice!  I was hopping S4 might be a skinned down version of SS.  That is if I understand SS capabilities.

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Will we be able to combine PE and SE/SS to program the same element in the future?  I like some of the effects in PE and would like to combine them with Superstar effects to control the same element/fixture in SE.

That is the real question for me too. I hope so. But no word has been given on if this is in the plan.

As it stands now, PE will not be used by me for sequencing songs. Introductions, between song skits...that type of thing maybe.

I need to control my pixels at least some of the song. And as PE is now, I am not able to do that. Once you hit an element with some effects in PE, then any other sequencer is not allowed.

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I hope so too and it definitely could affect my decision on whether to purchase the PRO license in order to use the pixel editor once the beta is over.  At this point I'm sticking with SS/SE and only messing around with the PE effects.

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For me, I do my sequencing in Superstar exclusively. With S4, I am able to import a completed sequence into the PE, convert it to the Intensity file, then delete those channels once it's converted. I've done this 7 times so far with existing sequences and brought the size of the file down, at a minimum 90% of the size.

 

For example, I just converted a 147 Mb plus sequence down to just over 1.1 Mb. This ability alone, to me, is worth the price of upgrade. And, it loads almost immediately, once the SE opens. This same file took just under a minute to load with all effects in the lms file

 

I too, don't think the PE will be part of my actual sequencing. It may have been my thoughts or I read it somewhere, but I remember something about having your sequence open in the SE, and opening up the PE, adding an effect to a section of the sequence, and it all be seamless. Maybe I dreamed that, or mis-read the statement, I don't know. Regardless, It will not benefit me with the way I sequence a song.

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Ron

Once you convert your SS files to intensity files using PE, do you export all that back to the Sequence Editor? And then are you able to play it on the new visualizer?

 

Once your files are in PE, you could add effects there using PE, then also export that to SE and play them, correct? Or am I missing something

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Yes, once you migrate it to the pixel editor, you can make changes to the existing sequence. Once it's saved to the lms file, I think your editing is done. You'll still have the original file though. The PE creates a backup of your original sequence.

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Okay so let me get this straight?  You can open a SS file in PE and it will play as it did in SS so long as you import the props and all the "channels" are setup the same.  Then you can add PE editor effects to parts of the song that was already sequenced using SS.  After that you can save it as a intensity file in SE and have both SS and PE effects controlling the same components during the song/sequence......correct?

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You have to migrate the .lms sequence after you load it in the PE. As far as I know you cannot load the .sup file directly into the PE.

 

The steps are this:

Once the PE is open, Select File-->Open--> (Point to the .lms file you want to work on)

 

Under the Sequence tab, select:

Migration Tools-->Import from Sequence Editor.

 

At this point you can de-select any prop you want. All props in that sequence will be checked to migrate by default.

 

The grid will have all of your timings but the effects will show as a white highlight, all the way from start to finish.

 

Once in find the timing you want the new PE effect to change, Left click and drag, select "Cut" this will remove any effect in that highlighted area. Right click and select "Modify. The effects window will open and you can create your new effect in place of the old one. Once you have your effect created, in the center of the window, click on "Favorites" and then select "Save" enter the name and select OK. Then select the other OK on the left side.

 

Now when you play your sequence, your new effect will play at the point you started it.

 

It sounds like a lot of work, but it can be done in a few seconds once you figure out the time stamp of where you want the effect to go.

 

Hope this was not too confusing.

Edited by Ron Boyd

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Say I have a 16 strand pixel tree I'm sequencing in SS[from S3]: I have the visualization done in the older S3 version


 


I must FIRST export that from SS as an .lms file, [an intensity file format];  so I end up with my sequence in the intensity type .lms file structure


 


THEN, I use PE to migrate/import this; edit my file to whatever, then after saving this in PE, I can now use S4 SE to play in visualizer


 


Is this correct?

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I'm not seeing any effects playing back in the effects screen, PE,  while playing the file in PE, should I be or will it only show up in visualizer?

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You have to migrate the .lms sequence after you load it in the PE. As far as I know you cannot load the .sup file directly into the PE.

 

The steps are this:

Once the PE is open, Select File-->Open--> (Point to the .lms file you want to work on)

 

Under the Sequence tab, select:

Migration Tools-->Import from Sequence Editor.

 

At this point you can de-select any prop you want. All props in that sequence will be checked to migrate by default.

 

The grid will have all of your timings but the effects will show as a white highlight, all the way from start to finish.

 

Once in find the timing you want the new PE effect to change, Left click and drag, select "Cut" this will remove any effect in that highlighted area. Right click and select "Modify. The effects window will open and you can create your new effect in place of the old one. Once you have your effect created, in the center of the window, click on "Favorites" and then select "Save" enter the name and select OK. Then select the other OK on the left side.

 

Now when you play your sequence, your new effect will play at the point you started it.

 

It sounds like a lot of work, but it can be done in a few seconds once you figure out the time stamp of where you want the effect to go.

 

Hope this was not too confusing.

No you explained it perfectly......Thank You!

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No, export as a legacy file, not the Intensity file. If I understand it right, the intensity file is used in th final sequence. So, in review, export the Superstar sequence to a lms, legacy mode, then use that lms file in the above instructions and you should see it in the PE Visualizer.

 

 

Edit:

 

I put together a short video on how to do what I explained above. Once I get it loaded to Vimeo, I'll post it here. 

 

Snap, The first video did not turn out very good. I'll try again.

Edited by Ron Boyd

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Ron, you can also export a SS file as an intensity file.

 

I don't have large files.  So for me exporting legacy is just fine.  I am a control freak and want to be able to see the sequence data.  But I did play with it.  It too is just one line in the sequence editor.  I don't know if it makes the file smaller.  Mine are small enough.

 

But, for your purpose....export legacy to SE...import to PE...create intensity file....export to SE....seems like an extra program (PE) that is not needed.

 

B.Y.R.G....PE and SS do not play the final sequence.  The sequence editor is needed to play the sequence for your show.  SO both PE and SS export to SE.  SE does all the work.

 

Sax

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Ron, you can also export a SS file as an intensity file.

 

I don't have large files.  So for me exporting legacy is just fine.  I am a control freak and want to be able to see the sequence data.  But I did play with it.  It too is just one line in the sequence editor.  I don't know if it makes the file smaller.  Mine are small enough.

 

But, for your purpose....export legacy to SE...import to PE...create intensity file....export to SE....seems like an extra program (PE) that is not needed.

 

B.Y.R.G....PE and SS do not play the final sequence.  The sequence editor is needed to play the sequence for your show.  SO both PE and SS export to SE.  SE does all the work.

 

Sax

 

I have 3 SS sequences to import in, 2 pixel trees and then, the rest of the display. I haven't figured out how to import all 3 into the same sequence and it work properly. That said, I have to do it like I am, unless there's a way that I haven't figured out yet.

 

Here's the video I promised:

 

Edited by Ron Boyd
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Oh, that's right. Too many elements for your old visualizer required multiple ss files per song. I remember now.

Makes sense. Lucky for me, the sw caught up to me before I grew beyond it.

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Ron, you can also export a SS file as an intensity file.

 

I don't have large files.  So for me exporting legacy is just fine.  I am a control freak and want to be able to see the sequence data.  But I did play with it.  It too is just one line in the sequence editor.  I don't know if it makes the file smaller.  Mine are small enough.

 

But, for your purpose....export legacy to SE...import to PE...create intensity file....export to SE....seems like an extra program (PE) that is not needed.

 

B.Y.R.G....PE and SS do not play the final sequence.  The sequence editor is needed to play the sequence for your show.  SO both PE and SS export to SE.  SE does all the work.

 

Sax

I was able to add PE effects, in parts of the song I wanted, to a SS sequence using PE.  I was able to play it all back in SE using the SAVE INTENSITY data option......wohooo!  Just might have to upgrade to the PRO license once the BETA is over....Thunderstruck!!!

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Sweet. I saw Ron do the same in his video.

I added some effects as well....but not all my elements import into PE. Only the pixels.

I will play more when I get the time.

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Sweet. I saw Ron do the same in his video.

I added some effects as well....but not all my elements import into PE. Only the pixels.

I will play more when I get the time.

 

I forgot to mention in the video, if you have a dumb RGB element that just has a single RGB channel, or for example, a multi channel, Non-RGB element, (in my case, the 6 channel LED star on the 12 x 50 pixel tree, 16 RGB stars and 8 RGB Mini Trees), in the PE visualizer, you need to select "Traditional", instead of "Pixel Editor" for that element. The choice is in the setup window when you create the prop. The PE will leave those alone in your final export, so they will be left in the sequence once you remove the channel data, and, they will play in the PE. Matt confirmed this when I put in a Bug report.

 

Now, if you have a multi channel, dumb RGB element, such as my Bethlehem/Holdman star, it seems to treat it as a pixel element. That star has 3  RGB channels associated with it and it plays it just fine

Edited by Ron Boyd

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Now, if you have a multi channel, dumb RGB element, such as my Bethlehem/Holdman star, it seems to treat it as a pixel element. That star has 3  RGB channels associated with it and it plays it just fine

How do you differentiate between dumb element and say a dumb spot?

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Hi Ron watched your video on S4. I have not downloaded S 4 yet. But have been using nutcracker for a few years look very similar to S4 now what is the advantage to S4 over nutcracker.? Thanks Dennis

In S4 pixel editor versus nutcracker Both the same ?

Edited by Dennis Laff

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I would imagine, you need to select "Traditional" in the prop window for those too.

 

My stars are made with 20, 3 LED rectangle modules per star, same type on the CoroStars from HC. The minis are 50 bullet nodes per tree. Each of these elements are 1 RGB channel or as some like to say, 3 total channels, R, G and B. When I checked "Traditional" instead of "Pixel Editor", these showed up in the sequence in the PE where before, they did not. The 6 channel star was an identical scenario. 

 

Now, and this is purely speculation, since the Bethlehem star is 3 RGB channels, a custom prop, it acts totally the opposite. My guess is, and here's the speculation part, Since it is a multi-channel prop, the program treats it as 3 pixels, even though it is a dumb RGB prop.

 

So all that being said, I would think the RGB floods or spots, would be treated as a single RGB channel, and thus, need to be a "Traditional" prop to show up.

 

Again, this is just speculation.

Edited by Ron Boyd

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