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DMX Newbie Thirsting for Knowledge


dragonzpneuma

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Excellent show Tim.  Actually, I am in the process of ordering a E682 controller from Sandevices.  Just waiting on their reply to my email.  Their web site is not set up for direct ordering.  Will add a couple of 27 channel controllers to that and see what I can come up with.  Already have about 170 feet of dumb strips on order.  As for the pixel level control, I'm sure I will have some of that added to my show by the time Christmas 2015 gets here.  With all the videos and tutorials I've been watching, I'm starting to feel a little more comfortable in the RGB arena.  The biggest problem I see is that there are no standards set for RGB yet.  The number of possible configurations is mind boggling.  I think what I need to do right now is decide on one configuration/protocol type such as E1.31 and stick to it.  Much less confusing.  Many thanks for the advice, and enjoyed your show. 

 

Keith

Keith:  Seasonal Entertaimnet is a distributor for San Devices     www.seasonalentertainmentllc.com  they are setup for web orders.

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Thanks Jerrymac, but seasonalentertainment doesn't carry the kit version of the E682.  I prefer to solder myself which saves quite a bit on the cost ($70 cheaper).  I've soldered several LOR boards so I am comfortable with it.  I just received a response to my email directly to Sandevices so the purchase is in progress now.

 

Tim and k6ccc; you guys are correct about the overall cost of dumb vs smart in the configuration I was considering.  Hadn't broken it down like that yet but it does make sense.  Many thanks for the advice.

 

Keith

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Another question:  I have been checking out 2811 pixel strings on EBay and they advertise 5v and 12v versions.  Cost of the 5v is obviously cheaper but what would I be giving up by opting for the 5v?  I'm sure I would be better off to get the 12v, but as this thread says, I want to learn.

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Depending on the length of your run and how far away from the power supply/controller. 5v drops voltage quicker than 12v so you may need to use null pixels or inject power. I did a 16 string of 50 pixels for the tree and used 5v. My controller was about 6 feet from the first pixel and I had no problems.

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I run 12V ws2811.  While 5V may be more efficient, 12v allows longer runs with no power injection needed.

I was able to go as far as 150 pixels with no power injection.  

I was also able to go 20 feet from the controller to the first pixel with no null pixels needed.

If you are looking at a C9 style pixel, check out DIYLED Express and their PixaBulbs.

They also carry the strips.  Pre-Sale pricing right now.

 

Tim

Edited by Tim Benson
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Another question:  I have been checking out 2811 pixel strings on EBay and they advertise 5v and 12v versions.  Cost of the 5v is obviously cheaper but what would I be giving up by opting for the 5v?  I'm sure I would be better off to get the 12v, but as this thread says, I want to learn.

 

As a general rule of thumb, with 5V smart strips or pixels, you have individual control of every RGB LED.  With 12V smart pixels or strips you are controlling 3 RGB LEDs at a time (the way a CCR works).  Yes, there are 12V single RGB LED pixels, but not many, and they are less power efficient. As someone else pointed out, 12V pixels use less current for the same amount of light so wire sizes do not need to be as large.  All of my year round landscape lighting smart strips are 12V, and for that application, having 3 RGB LEDs controlled together is not a problem - in fact I am using the group size setting in the E6804 to make the groups larger resulting in several feet of strip being controlled as just three channels.  However my pixel tree and star are using 5V devices because I specifically wantedto be able to control each individual RGB LED.  With 960 pixels running at 5V, I do have to pay attention to the current.  With all those pixels at full white, the current draw is almost 60 amps.  For the first two years, there was less than 10 feet of power wire between my 5V power supply and the E682.  I ran four pieces of 10 AWG stranded wire (two each for plus and minus).  For 2014, because I moved the pixel tree about 10 feet, I had to extend those power cables.  Because I needed to not spend money at that time, I used what I had in stock which meant that I spliced in another 10 feet of wire.  Since I only had 12AWG in stock, I went with three each of plus and minus.  Now that the tree is down, I will be re-doing that.  As I expect to be adding quite a bit more pixels to both the star and tree, I will size wire for all future plans.

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So, if I'm reading you right Jim, it would take 510 channels to control a string of 170 5v RGB LED's, but only 170 channels to control 170 12v RGB LED's.  I guess that means they each have pros and cons.  The 5v version would be best for images with better detail while the 12v would be fine for color effects, runs and less detailed images.  I'll have to learn more about injection points for DC.  I understand the loss of voltage over long runs, but I'm not sure how to calculate the point where I need to add another power supply.  For instance, if a 5v power supply lost 4 volts over a 100 foot run and I injected another 5v power supply at that point, wouldn't I be running 6 volts from that point?  And what damage can I cause by injecting too much power at the wrong point?  Just more things I'll learn from experience.  Thanks for taking the time to explain the details Jim (and Tim)!!!!

 

 

EDIT....Well, after doing some reading, I answered my own question about power injection.  Apparently it's as simple as leaving the power wires open at the end of the first section and injecting power to only the next section.  Boy do I feel like an idiot LOL.

Edited by dragonzpneuma
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Smart strings each pixel requires 3 channels as each individual pixel is controlled regardless of the voltage. Dumb strings require only 3 channels as each individual pixel is not controlled, the entire string is the same color regardless of the voltage.

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Ummmm, no. At least not directly it's not. The E682 is a smart pixel controller. The only way I can think of to control dumb strips using an E682 would be to have the E682 output DMX, and have the the DMX drive one or more DMX controllers. You can not hook a dumb strip directly to an output on a E682.

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That's actually what I plan to do Jim.  I opted for the E682 to prepare myself for smart pixels in the future, knowing that I could drop DMX dumb controllers off of it for now. However there is an update since I made that decision.  I went ahead and ordered 500 WS2811's.  Add that to the 10 5 meter dumb strips I already have and I guess I'll be playing with both dumb and smart.  I've got plenty of time to test and learn before Christmas 2015, so wish me luck. 

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You will find that 500 pixels can get used REAL fast.

I have never done anything DMX - LOR and E1.31 only, so I can't tell you how well the E682 drives it, but I know others have successfully. All 33 meters of the dumb strip in my current landscape lighting is being driven by LOR 16 channel DC boards.

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FYI: The new WS2821 and WS2822 type of strings can be fed directly from a DMX source with no controller needed. 

 

This is according to the specs and I have not gotten one in my hands yet.

 

Just thought you'd like to know.

 

More information: http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-100Pcs-WS2821-WS2821A-Full-Color-RGB-Pixel-6-LEDs-5050-RGB-LED-Module-DC24V-/281454910027?pt=US_Lighting_Parts_and_Accessories&var=&hash=item4188051a4b

 

and: http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?32472-WS2821-in-flood-lights

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