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DMX Newbie Thirsting for Knowledge


dragonzpneuma

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I am already starting to plan my next years show and I want to implement some DMX into it.  I have watched videos, read forums, watched more videos, and think I have just enough information to make me dangerous.  I am thinking of starting with a 1.31 controller to allow for expansion in the future.  I know I need the 1.31 controller, a sufficient power supply, individual LED controllers and of course the light strips.  I have a couple of questions from here.  Do I need a decoder/translator in the setup or does the 1.31 controller take care of that?  Is there somewhere on the internet that I can find actual schematics of typical DMX setups?  I'm one of those simple-minded DIY'ers that can get a lot more from a schematic than I can from listening to someone explain it.  Any help for the newbie would be greatly appreciated!!!

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Lots of ways to go about it.  LOR is a self contained system.    If you wish to pursue E1.31 as a cost effective alternative, one of the arguably simplest ways may be to just run a small DHCP router, connect your computer on one port and at least one SansDevice controller with its DC power supply on the other.  Output the SansDevice controller to the lights, set the LOR network preferences and you're ready to play.  

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The 1.31 type of network is not native DMX, but some of the E1.31 controllers have a DMX output port somewhere on the card.

The main output of these E1.31 controllers is  SDI or serial protocol used by smart light pixels or strings and they connect directly to the E1.31 controller card with three or four wires, depending on the type of pixels you get.

You can output DMX directly from your computer with a dongle that can handle 512 DMX channels.

If you get the LOR iDMX-1000 (pricey but good), it can run off the regular LOR network and the Hardware Utility can work with the DMX channels directly for testing.

If you run the DMX off the E1.31 controller cards, it's more difficult to test DMX with. Usually have to create a short test sequence and run it.

 

There's lots of Youtube videos on how all this is done and very skilled people on the Forum to help with problems.

Just don't expect them to teach you everything when you have Youtube available to you.

 

Good luck and welcome to this fun endeavor.

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Take a look at the www.AusChristmasLighting.com board.  You will need to join that board.  go the the RGB lights section (3'rd down) look for Introduction to
RGB lighting section (5th down).  The fist entry has a link to open/download the 101 presentation.  This is a MUST read.

You can also find good information on David's board  www.holidaycoro.com go to the products help and demonstration title on the top right.  In the most helpful sections is a good video presentation on
RGB.

These will give you a good start.

 

for E1.31 RGB you only need a separate Ethernet cable, a E1.31 controller, a power supply and some smart lights. 

 

Sounds much more simple than the actual application.

 

sorry can't paste links.

Edited by jerrymac
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Thanks for all the advice guys.  I will take advantage of all suggestions.  Got a long time before Christmas 2015 so I hope to get proficient at RGB by then. 

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Take a look at the www.AusChristmasLighting.com board.  You will need to join that board.  go the the RGB lights section (3'rd down) look for Introduction to

RGB lighting section (5th down).  The fist entry has a link to open/download the 101 presentation.  This is a MUST read.

You can also find good information on David's board  www.holidaycoro.com go to the products help and demonstration title on the top right.  In the most helpful sections is a good video presentation on

RGB.

These will give you a good start.

 

for E1.31 RGB you only need a separate Ethernet cable, a E1.31 controller, a power supply and some smart lights. 

 

Sounds much more simple than the actual application.

 

sorry can't paste links.

 

Seconded wholeheartedly.  This should be the first stop for anyone with their first questions about RGB/DMX/E1.31 etc...

 

Is there anyway to make a sticky in the forums that can provide direction?

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long time before Christmas 2015 ..............  seems that way but time goes really REALLY fast.  Both Holiday Coro and Seasonal Entertainment have RGB starter kits. (controller and sample pixel types).  Really worth the investment to get going. RGB isn't that different once you get through the basic setup but it is different and the setup is very different but well worth the work.  Biggest difference is the network end.  If you are up to the learning DYI is good, if you are a plug and play type do the LOR Cosmic pixel or ribbon route.

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Thanks Jerry.  I'm definitely not the plug-n-play type.  I've got to get into the nuts-n-bolts of things and learn it from the inside out.  I will, however probably start with just dumb strings for the first year and then graduate up to pixel nodes as I learn.  We'll just have to see how it goes.  Thanks again!!!

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Dumb strings are no easier or harder than smart stings (just consume less channels) and not necessarily that much cheaper.  

Dumb stings DO have a valid place in a display just as ribbons -vs- pixels.  Each have an advantage and disadvantage depending on where in the display and what goal you have.

i.e. around windows and doors,  unless you really want to change each pixel individually dumb ribbons work very well and allow a better distribution of controllers and power than smart strings.  Ribbons do NOT work well for corners or bends (unless you solder your own connectors and are very fragile).   pixels are very durable and work better in a lot of applications.  Point is both have a place and either can be better than the other depending on the application.

The pixels them selves are near the same price for both kinds but the controllers have a larger cost spread (dumb controllers in the $10.00 range with smart starting around $40.00 with E.131. controllers starting around $100.00)  Smart controllers work out less per channel but you start to run into distance issues from controller to first pixel issues that often is easier to manage with dumb controllers.

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Thanks again Jerry.  I am currently researching DMX decoders and comparing the Holiday Coro Actidongle V2 with the Enttec Pro.  The Holiday Coro Actidongle V2 states that it is compatible with the Enttec Pro, which I'm assuming means it has the same functionality.  My first question is, does the Actidongle handle the timing just like the Enttec Pro?  If it does, why is the Actidongle so much cheaper (almost 1/3 the cost of the Enttec Pro)?  I guess I'm looking for a Holiday Coro Actidongle vs Enttec Pro review here.

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Last year at this very time I was exactly where you are. 

 

If you are serious about going to DMX control, I suggest you don't even go the dongle route.

Most of the available E1.31 (ethernet connected controllers) can be configured to output

one or more basic DMX outputs.  With Pixels, you will very quickly eat up the 512 channels in a single universe. 

For example a Sandevices E6804 has 4 outputs that can drive pixels directly

or be set up as a DMX output that can drive other DMX devices.   If you just want to drive pixels out of LOR, then get a E 1.31

based controller, power supply , enclosure, and some pixels and go to town.

 

With 2 E6804 controllers and about 380 pixels, I did the entire house.  (the stuff in the yard is DMX too)  Here is what it looks like.

 

 

 

Tim

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Excellent show Tim.  Actually, I am in the process of ordering a E682 controller from Sandevices.  Just waiting on their reply to my email.  Their web site is not set up for direct ordering.  Will add a couple of 27 channel controllers to that and see what I can come up with.  Already have about 170 feet of dumb strips on order.  As for the pixel level control, I'm sure I will have some of that added to my show by the time Christmas 2015 gets here.  With all the videos and tutorials I've been watching, I'm starting to feel a little more comfortable in the RGB arena.  The biggest problem I see is that there are no standards set for RGB yet.  The number of possible configurations is mind boggling.  I think what I need to do right now is decide on one configuration/protocol type such as E1.31 and stick to it.  Much less confusing.  Many thanks for the advice, and enjoyed your show. 

 

Keith

Edited by dragonzpneuma
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The actidongle will work just like the entecpro in regards to LOR. why it is so much cheaper, im not sure. I purchased an actidongle and it was a bad one but Dave at holiday coro replaced it very quickly and it works just fine. Yes it does the timing like the entecpro.

 

I don't use it except for testing. E131 and smart rgb for me. I often make my smart strips act as dumb strips (like my avatar).

 

May I ask why you are ordering a E682 AND couple of 27 channel controller? Is this to run your dumb strips? Or are you just stock piling?

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Ok, so you are doing some Dumb RGB.  That is what are in the Snowmen blowmolds in the video.

In my case, each snowman has 5 Dumb RGB pucks with a 3 channel DMX controller.  Those are all

daisy chained with cat5 providing the DMX signal and power. Im my case, the DMX signal gets there via

Wireless signaling using Komby RF1 system.

 

Tim

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Yes Saxon, I am stockpiling.  While I am starting with dumb RGB, I want the ability at hand to phase in smart pixels when I'm ready.  Want to play with the equipment and get comfortable with it before I go too crazy.  I'm even considering breaking down the dumb strips into 1 or 2 foot sections and by using three channels per section, I can get a little movement/runs with dumb strips. Not sure what the Komfy RF1 system is Tim, but I'll definitely look it up and check it out.  I'm moving my show down away from the house for 2015 and wireless would solve a lot of problems that I see coming.  Many thanks for all the input guys!!!

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Thanks again Jerry.  I am currently researching DMX decoders and comparing the Holiday Coro Actidongle V2 with the Enttec Pro.  The Holiday Coro Actidongle V2 states that it is compatible with the Enttec Pro, which I'm assuming means it has the same functionality.  My first question is, does the Actidongle handle the timing just like the Enttec Pro?  If it does, why is the Actidongle so much cheaper (almost 1/3 the cost of the Enttec Pro)?  I guess I'm looking for a Holiday Coro Actidongle vs Enttec Pro review here.

 

The Enttec Pro is pretty much the industry standard for the USB->DMX dongle; hundreds of these are sold to theatres and touring companies and lighting folks all over the world. Just about every piece of software will work with it.Price range is $100-$150 and it's solid like a rock; always works. I own three of them and their little brother, the DMXKing.

 

The Actidongle is a new kid on the block that that also provides external DMX timing (so you computer doesn't have to). It had some small issues when it first came out, but is now a stable product. It has both an XLR output and a RJ45 (ethernet) connector that can be used simultaneously. Even though it has an RJ45 jack, it will not output E1.31 or LOR protocols.

 

Many people use Cat5 cable to connect their controllers because it's cheap. But there's a danger there; because they use the same connector type, it could be very easy to mistakenly plug one type of network into another and cause damage to your equipment. Some people send multiple network signals down the same wire and some others color code the Cat5 wires for the type of networks (LOR, E1.31 and DMX).

 

Avoid using the Enttec Open type of device and the LOR USB dongle because they do not generate their own DMX signal and you could get into problems if your computer gets busy and cannot service the dongle like it should. Yes, they may work for smaller networks, but as you grow, it may be problematic.

 

Not all USB->DMX dongles are the same; some only run with certain proprietary software.

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Thanks for the review Ken.  The RJ45 on the Actidongle not running LOR is not a problem with me.  I will always keep my LOR controllers and RGB controllers on separate connections.  I will prefer it that way since I already have LOR set up on the 485 anyway.  I have decided to start with a E682 E1.31 setup, but it is good to know that the Actidongle gives the same functionality as the Enttec at a fraction of the cost, in case I should want to try it in the future.  Many thanks for the input. 

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  I'm even considering breaking down the dumb strips into 1 or 2 foot sections and by using three channels per section, I can get a little movement/runs with dumb strips.

 

 

If you are considering this, Just go with some smart strips and save yourself the pain.  You can set up the SanDevices controller to drive the smart

strip just like a dumb strip by grouping the pixels. 

 

Tim

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I agree with Tim on this. Just go with the smart strip. One point not often made is that the wiring ends up far easier with the smart pixels. Let me give an example from my year-round landscape lighting. I have 17 roses along a wall with that red scalloped concrete edging in front of it. When I first lit that, I had about 2 1/2 feet of warm white rope light in front of each rose. Took all of a 16 channel DC controller + one channel from another one. A while later I wanted to change it to RGB. Ok, that would be 51 channels, so three 16 channel DC controllers + three channels from a fourth one (the 24 channel boards were not out yet). It would also mean a bundle of wires almost the size of my wrist. Since this is a permanent installation, all the wire is in conduit, and there was no where near enough conduit space for that much wire without adding a lot more conduit. Instead I put 2 1/2 feet of 2811 smart strip in front of each rose and a SanDevices E6804 in an existing 4x4x4 conduit box and ran two strings off it. Each "pixel" is actually a group of 11 pixels as far as the E6804 is concerned, and since it's 12 volt strip, there are three LEDs per pixel, so it comes out to 33 RGB LEDs per rose, but to LOR its the same 51 channels as it would have been if it was dumb strips.

The cost of the E6804 and three rolls of smart strip was far less than it would have been for three rolls of dumb strips and three 16 channel DC controllers.

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Started rgb/dmx for 2014 also; slowly switching over to more and more rgb

 

I'm using E682 controllers; highly recommend these(or smaller E6804)

5v, 50 pixel strings from DIYledexpress (arches and trees)

used Superstar to sequence

 

there was a little bit of a learning curve for me but I had lots of help from Jim, Ron Boyd, Brian(Superstar), George Simmons and others

there is a lot of help and knowledge here

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