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To RGB or not to RGB


paulydreamer

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Hello:

 

First anybody from Houston, Texas? I haven't been able to locate any kind of support in this area.

 

 

My name is Paul and I am in Houston, TX. I have decided to join and post in this forum for the following reasons.

 

1.)    I have been bitten by the bug and I have decided (talked my wife into letting me) to have a “Light Show” next Christmas. I feel a year to learn and accumulate materials is enough (to have a "beginner" show)

 

2.)    Though I am handy I am totally confused on this process even after my research. It is becoming clearer but I still have questions. I am more of a hands on visual learner.

 

3.)    I have read through the forums but still feel like I’m just missing something

 

4.)    Y’all seem like great and helpful people so I am hoping your expertise will guide and help me from making costly mistakes

 

So here is my first ,of many, questions

 

1.) I am considering doing RGB strips to outline my house. I figured it would have a higher start up cost but there are some positives

                         a.) Don't have to take them off the house after year's end

                         b.) I can use the lights for other holiday's (Halloween)

 

Am I missing something in that quick assessment?

 

I would like to use "Smart" strips for the added dynamic. LOR smart strips "CCR's" are pretty pricey and I have seen some people recommend Ray Wu's products. Does he offer a "smart strip" that would work on the LOR system/software? Is it plug and play? What are the con's to his system? Would his product work well for a 12 ribbon tree using LOR SS software?

 

Also, when I buy the ribbons they all come with a controller and a power supply. So if I have 5 ribbons does that mean I would have to connect 5 controllers to my computer or just one "basic" LOR controller? Will I have to run 5 extension cords?

 

I am feeling overwhelmed so I am planning on starting kind of small and buying a package like the one below. Though I would LOVE to have a CCR tree on year 1(if I can get the cost below 1k). Hopefully as I become better I can expand my show (Do I just buy more controllers????). 

 

vvvv(Is this a good deal?)vvvv

 

http://www.wowlights.com/ProductDetail.asp?Category=20&Product=210

 

 

I just want to give my thanks in advance. I know I am asking a lot of questions (prolly all silly ones) but this is something I WANT to learn. I feel like I am on a island.

 

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I have RGB strips (both smart and dumb) up all year long.  They get used for my year round landscape lighting.  I do light up in various colors for most of the minor holidays.  The dumb strips are being driven by LOR 16 channel DC controller cards - 27 channels on 3 cards.  The smart strips are driven by SanDevices E6804 cards.  All of the strips were purchased from Ray Wu's store - http://www.aliexpress.com/store/701799

 

As to your question about using Ray Wu's smart strips or pixels in a 12 string pixel tree since 2012.  I have 12 strings of 50 each 5V 2811 pixels in a tree along with 360 2811 pixels in a pixel star controlled by a SanDevices E682.  Works great!  I built my tree using the Ray Wu 2811 pixels instead of CCRs for exactly one reason - cost.  It was well under your $1,000 limit.  Using 2811 strips does involve a little DIY soldering, and you need to learn a bit about setting up the E1.31 network, but that's not all that hard.  Also note that to use E1.31, you need to have an advanced class LOR software license.

 

If you are using CCRs, you would cable the CCR controllers along with your other LOR controllers.  If you are using 2811 pixels, they are driven by a controller such as the SanDevices controllers that I'm using (there are others BTW).  That in turn would connect to your show computer via ethernet LAN.  I'm going to state this to make sure it's obvious - although an ethernet LAN and LOR controllers both use cat-5 cable, they ARE NOT compatible, DO NOT CONNECT your ethernet LAN and LOR RS-485 together. 

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I'm using Ra Wu's WS2811 5V pixels too this first year for me using them. I'm using the JoshuaSystems ECG-P12S card which is working beautifully. I'm also using dumb strips for the windows with an LOR DC controller, CMB24. It too works perfectly. As k6ccc said, E1.31 connections and LOR's RS485 network have the same Cat5 cables but they are NOT the same. As he said, DO NOT CONNECT THEM TOGETHER. You'll fry something for sure. As hard as it sounds to accomplish, truly its not. Its by far easier and once you get a handle on how it works, its easy. FYI, for both pixels or dumb strips, you'll need the appropriate power supply for them and an enclosure if they are going to be outside. The pixel controller need to be fairly close to the pixels due too possible line-loss.

Edited by dgrant
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Wow! thanks for all the support! It is great to know there are some fellow Houstonians on this site. I have some follow up questions.

 

1.)  involve a little DIY soldering, and you need to learn a bit about setting up the E1.31 network? What are the differences between E1.31 and the LOR system?

 

2.) I see alot of different cards being used (SanDevices E6804 cards,joshuaSystems ECG-P12S card) this might seem like a stupid question where is the card in relation to the controller? 

 

From my very limited understanding this is the layout

(over simplified)     >>> = cat 5 cable

Computer (running LOR)>>>>Controller>>>>Controller for RGB strip>>>>RGB

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Ok, E1.31 is DMX over TCPIP internet protocol. Basically its a local network connection to the card from your computer through a switch(GB router). Your computer connects to the switch and you connect the card to the switch and they talk! Yes, there are network configurations in LOR to make this work and its easier to do than you think. Many people are using the SanDevices card and others are using the JoshuaSystems card. The card is the controller! It needs a power suppy and an enclosure to protect both. Most of us are using CG1500' enclosures as they work and they are cheap. The power supply requirements are based on the type of pixels you buy. I have a parts list for my pixel tree, running on the ECG-P12S that you are welcome to have...PM me your email address and I'll send that to you. I think I put the dumb rgb strips and controller in there too but don't hold me to it. So again on the configurations...for smart RGB pixels/nodes, its computer to switch, switch to controller using Cat5. The controller connects directly to the pixels/nodes. For dumb rgb strips, its LOR's network, cat 5 from another "LOR" controller to the CMB24 controller card. It connects directly to the strips. As a reminder for you and anyone else who reads this...the LOR network uses Cat5 cables but it is NOT internet communications. It is in fact, serial RS485 comm. The Cat5's used for comm to "intelligent" pixel controllers, IS internet type comm and the two are NOT compatible.

 

My parts list does not contain dumb strip info...sorry. Any RGB 12 volt dumb strips will probably work plus you'll need a 12 volt power supply and the CMB24 from LOR.

 

You'll also need the Advanced license

Edited by dgrant
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First, you'll need to set up a LOR network and then an E1.31 network separately.

 

USB-RS485>>>Cat5e>>>LOR Controller>>>Incans or LEDs

Ethernet port>>>E1.31 controller>>>RGB

 

The links in this thread, should give you a lot of what you need to know.

 

http://forums.lightorama.com/index.php?/topic/32270-cmb-24-videos/?p=297149

 

By no means is this all the info out there, but there is a wealth of knowledge in this post

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Let me see if I can explain this.  For your first question.  LOR controllers use an RS-485 serial connection.  RS-485 is a standard for communications that is designed to allow fairly long distance (spec says 4,000 feet), and to have multiple points sending data.  By comparison, the RS-232 that some PCs still have a connector for is good for about 25 feet and only designed for 2 devices talking to each other.  RS-485 also allows a far faster data rate than RS-232.  Since almost all PCs do not include a RS-485 connection (there are a few specialized data acquisition PCs that do), in most cases, we use a USB adapter to provide RS-485 connectivity to our show PCs.  Although we refer to it as networks, it is NOT the same as a common computer ethernet network.
 
E1.31 by comparison runs over a traditional ethernet computer LAN.  E1.31 is a TCP/IP standard that encapsulates DMX commands over an ethernet LAN.  In some cases, people use the same LAN that is used for normal internet access, and in some cases, a dedicated LAN is used for the E1.31.  Like most things in life, there are advantages and disadvantages to each.  I can explain them in detail if desired.  The short answer however is that if you use WiFi on your home LAN, you are best to use a separate LAN for the E1.31 - or at least use unicast rather than multicast (I can explain that one as well). 

 

I drew up a simple drawing that explains the different networks and what connects to what, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to upload it into this message without putting the image on a  website (how I normally do it from home, but I'm not at home and can't upload it to my website from here).  Send me an E-Mail address and I'll send it to you.

 

The drawing answers your second question, but since I cant upload it, I will answer it this way.  A E1.31 controller connects to your normal computer network via your ethernet LAN.  It does not connect to your LOR controllers in any way shape or form.  Your normal LOR controllers connect via RS-485 to a RS-485 adapter which connects to your show PC via a USB connection.

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Ok guys it is starting to click for me. However, why do y'all use different cards? is it a quality or price thing? Does that add any limitations to you on the LOR software (like superstar)?

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Ok guys it is starting to click for me. However, why do y'all use different cards? is it a quality or price thing? Does that add any limitations to you on the LOR software (like superstar)?

The cards come in different flavors because simply, they are totally different. Intelligent pixel cards were designed for those specific devices. DC cards, were designed for dumb strips...LOR AC channels turn on/off 120V Ac strings.

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Ok so I had a little free time and I made a layout based on my understanding from the discussion above. How far off am I?

 

 

Layout_zpsb418a04e.png

The e1.31 controller connects directly to your computer.  It would look like this.  

 

computer ethernet port -> e1.31 controller (with power supply)  -> 2811 RGB strips.  The light o rama network would be completely separate and runs out of a USB cable.  E1.31 works by assigning each controller a unique IP address through your LAN. 

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This has been a good start as far as info for me goes. I'm just looking to start to outline in "dumb" RBGs. Bulbs and minis no tape. Every different strand requires 3 channels correct? Example= 8 strands is a 24 channel board. LOR sells the bulbs 2 strands with the controller. Can i just buy the strands and boards separately so I can have More then 2 strands on a single controller? Is there a way to make custom length strands of rbgs??

Edited by NewbieDave
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Is that a yes to all the questions i asked??

Yes. You can buy other dumb led strips and connect them to LOR's CMB24 controller. Yes, it has 24 channels which is 3 channels for each strip or 8 strips or groups of strips. Yes, you can make custom lengths all you wish. There are limits of course and you'll need a 12 volt power supply plus an enclosure if their kit doesn't have it.

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I'm not wanting to do RGB Strips. I'm wanting to do the strands. Are custom length strands a possibility? Where is the best place to get an enclosure and power supply? Do you order the RGBs from Ray or elsewhere??

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