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Lots of Problems here


scuubydoo3

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So I have several problems going on with my display. I don't even know where to start. I have a mix of 40 RGB Dumb Ribbons and 16 CCR's that are all displayed along the contours of the house/bushes/windows.

I finally have the entire display up (first year). I've made  a couple shows without any music just to show things like changing of colors, morphing and things like that.

I play the LOR hardware utility and everyone acts fine on its own. But when I play the show that's when everything looks hokey!!

 

First I have some RGB Dumb ribbons in the small in bushes. when I light them up, on some of the strands I can see individual lights that light up completely different colors than what it is suppose to be. On others, there is a mix of colors. Most of them don't show the same color, especially when fading from one color to the next.

 

Secondly, lets say during a morph from one side of the house to the other. I obviously hit every strand eventually. The CCR's start that light up are not smooth transitioning. I get one color (some times red or green) than a whole group of lights with light up than a next. Its not a smooth morph from one side to another. And it kinda pops when it does it. The first 15(estimated) will light for 2 seconds than the next 20 for 3 seconds and than another.

Even during the show I have just two CCR's to a morph from one side to another it is completely chopped up. Almost like there is a lag, process delay, or something.

I don't have anything run at extreme limits. I actually have a really small front yard. The longest extension I have is maybe an RGB Dumb Ribbon with 3 extensions on it. That's not nearly close to the 50ft they claim on LOR.

 

Thirdly, back to the bushes. I have one bush with a Dumb Ribbon that when it is suppose to light up with the others (one color) it doesn't. It lights up a color of its own. Completely different.

 

I am really stuck here guys. Hope someone takes the time to read all this and can help out.

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Edited by scuubydoo3
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40 dumb RGB Ribbons?  Are those 16 feet in length - 300 LEDS?  Lots of current needed there!  What's the wire gauge you are using to connect them to the controller?  How far between the ribbons and controller?

 

Are you adding extension cables between the CCRs and their controller?

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How many networks and what speed do you run on the networks?

Do you have a high speed adapter for the CCRs?

 

Steve

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wbaker4: Yes, each RGB Ribbon is about 16ft long. I am powering the controller with the LOR 12VDC 200 Watt Power Supply (PS-LED-12V-200W). They say it is efficient enough to power 8 RGB 10W floods on the CMB24D. I do have 4 10W floods powered into one of mine now. But the floods aren't on all the time during the problem.

 

I have check the wires at the CMB24D to make sure I have plugged them in correctly. I have.

 

Steve: I have 20 controllers going off of one network. I am using the high speed USB485 to power them.

 

In total, I have 16 CCR's and 5 CMB24D's running on the one USB485

Edited by scuubydoo3
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Are all controllers new? Some of the older ones can't run on the high speed. you should run the 16 ccr's on two networks 6 on each high speed usb485

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I am not sure what intensity you are running the dumb RGB ribbons, but I would suggest you do a test with the settings for any color no higher than 64.  That way you are using only 25% of the power vs a setting of 255 for a color.  Try a test using settings of 64 and see if there is a difference.  The 200 W power supply puts out around 16 amps.  Each 16 foot section of the Dumb RGB strips uses 6 Amps max.  It's not recommended that you daisy chain any more than 2 together.  

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Dennis: Yes the controllers are new. Just bought everything a few months ago.

 

Wbaker: I am running everything at normal intensity which I am assuming is 100. I will change things to run at about 64 like you said this evening when the sun goes down.

 

If the LOR 220W power supply has around 16amps on it and each RGB Dumb strip runs 6amps. That's suffice to say that each power strip can power no more than 2.5 strips? Why would LOR say that the power supply is the recommended to use for the CMB24D that can run 8 strips (24 channels) of either dumb strips or 10W flood lights?

 

I did talk with LOR today. He recommended that I increase the speed of the network. I have been running it on the recommended setting of 57.6K which is the default. They suggested I bump it up to the 500K and that should be enough to run what I have off of one network.

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40 ribbons on a single power supply (even without the floods) is pushing it.  Most of the ribbons are 150 LEDs per strip (30 per meter) and draw about three amps (36 watts) when full white, so 40 strips would substantially exceed the capacity of the power supply.  If they are 60 LED per meter, double the current to the six amps mentioned in an earlier post.  The general concept is to use one of those power supplies for one 16 or 24 port DC controller and have a total of either strips powered from the card.  Remember that each channel on the DC cards is good for a may of 4 amps, so the card can handle three 150 LED strips with a little room to spare.  If you do have more than one strip on a group of three channels, they should be fed in parallel, not end to end.  The strips are designed to carry the current required for that strip and not much more.

 

As for networking, I would split that up onto at least 2 networks (if able to use 500K speed) or three or four if not able to use 500K speed.

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Ooooh no... I don't have all 40 on one power supply. You are right. That's crazy.

 

So I have 5 CMB24D's. Each has their own 200W power supply from LOR. I have 3 of the CMB24D's plugged into a multi-strip with one CCR controller by the front door. I have another CMB24D plugged in upstairs by itself. Than another in the garage that is on a multi-strip also with 3 CCR controllers. Nothing is paralleled or end-to-end. I am using the 24 channels on each CMB24D like I'm suppose to.

I attached a picture of one of the bushes displaying a different picture to the very first post. It should be the same color as the other bushes but it isn't. And this goes on for this bush specifically. The ribbon in other bushes has several lights throughout the ribbon that display different variances of color.

 

I'm running everything off of one USB485 which I was told should be fine (on 500k). I'm going see how they run tonight at that speed. I do have another USB485 though. If needed I will split them up. It'll require more learning but I'm sure that will solve the problem.

I'll post again tonight if the problem is fixed or not.  Thanks everyone for the input!!

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OK... so after running a simple light display tonight on the 500K network speed. Nothing sequenced with music, just a simple light sequence. The one bush is still lighting a different color than the rest of the bushes. Its starting to be obvious that a lot of the lights that around the house aren't turning the colors they are suppose to. It doesn't matter if its a RGB Ribbon or CCR.

Is this a power issue or do I need to separate everything onto two networks?

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Ok, my first thought is it is a simple programming error. And by simple I mean simple to make the mistake...not so simple to find. Have you verified your channels are programmed correctly. Did you transfer over from a work PC to a show PC? This is where the errors could occur.

If it were my yard, I would start with the bushes. Program each one seperate for the colors red, green, blue. Simple program. Animation and loop it. If the colors are not correct....one color missing etc and you verified your channels to be correct then the next step would to be to verify the wiring from the controller. One set of bushes incorrect is almost always programming or wiring. Do this for each RGB element that you are having issues with. Don't worry about timing here....each element should go red, green then blue.

If wiring looks good then next would be to try a different RGB light there for that channel....preferably one that you are sure works. Yes, it is time consuming. Year 2 is better because you have already verified all this previous year. So look forward to that.

If your power supply is too weak what you get is lights on some static color....each one different and not changing OR you get a flash and off. My power supply just went bad and that is what I see. Flash is when the lights are programmed for white, static is whenever it feels like it.

For the CCRs, they have their own power supply. So the timing issue is probably the speed of the network. Breaking this up is super easy, plug in a new dongle, put the new one in your networks tab like you did your first one. It should have a different name. Select that dongle for half your controllers and done. It might work with you changing your speed but if not this is how to add a second dongle.

Morphs across the yard do sometimes not hit perfect for me. It is frustrating but it could be a number of things like power cord too close to the cat5, or the morph is just simply too fast with lights on very short period.

For me, the morphs struggle when the sequence is not compressed more than once it is compressed. When I bring in a sequence it is coming from my work computer to the show computer and I do not bring the compressed file. After first play it compresses and runs faster on my second play.

Another reason morphs may look funny or slow is if your RGB colors are not working correct. If a bush is supposed to morph with red but red is not working, when the morph occurs that bush is skipped...this makes the morph look choppy. The more lights you have issues with the worse the morph looks.

CCR different. Again, it is not always perfect for me. Believe me when I say I notice because it is perfect in visualizer. Do others notice? Maybe. But I don't mention it, I just silently growl to myself.

Update us to your progress. Troubleshooting in the rain sucks. That is what I am doing too....power supply is not too bad. But it took me awhile to find it. Thought for sure my issue was a leaking connector. Nope, they are all dry. Next time I will check the power supply first.

Good luck,

Sax

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OK... since I was off today I did troubleshoot all channels throughout the network. I DID NOT make sure the lights came on in a particular order but I did make sure that each light showed a red, green, and blue. I guess I could go through each controller and turn on the lights for test (reds, greens, and blues) to make sure each is wired correctly. I looked at them on the CMB24D's and they were correct there at least.

 

My lights do flicker... when I set the lights up on a morph so that they actually fad up or fade down..... Lets say I start the group of lights out black and I want to fade up to any color. The first few seconds when the lights start fading up they blink as if I told them to twinkle or shimmer. Than when they get bright enough they stop twinkling and go to a solid on color. The same happens when they fade down.

 

Power cord to close to the CAT5? Does that affect the lights, lol???

Also, what were you mentioning about morphs being to fast on a short period.

 

Yes, my CCR's are on their own power supply. That's why I don't understand why they are flickering as well. It's when there are just two of them morphing from one end to another or if I have half the house fading up/down.

 

I do all the sequencing and things on one laptop. Do I need to compress the files? Like you mentioned, will it start to play smother after I play the sequence a few times?

 

SAX: you have quite a post and I appreciate you taking the time to type it all up. I will keep you posted. You are only 3hrs away though!!

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Some of the info I was told a few months ago was that LOR recommended their 200w power supply if you purchased their led strips which they say run at 20w each. However, if you purchased the led strips somewhere else I have found that most other strips run at 36w for the 150 leds and 72w for the 300 leds. So if you did not purchase the strips from LOR then that 200w power supply will not be big enough and you will have to bump it up to 350w.

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Don't forget to check your programming. It is sooooo easy to get your channel numbers off. That is why going red green blue and verifying they work correct is important.

On my 27 channel dmx cards this is a simple dip switch. Flip the switch and watch the lights....do they all go red, green, blue and then they do other colors after. But this only tests the wiring. That is easy to get wrong too. Or one of the leads comes off as you attach the cables etc.

For the LOR DC card I am not able to do this test. I have to do the same thing I am suggesting to you. Program them. I could splash all my RGB at the same time but if I have a weak or failing power supply I might get false results. So better to do a smaller group. Unfortunately this test is for both the wires and the programming. It could also be the RGB element. So if one fails you have to check the programming, the wiring to the controller and then the element.

I wire my own RGB elements to a 4 pin waterproof connector. I could get that wrong too. But I test my elements as I make them. So once in the yard I know it isn't the element.

As far as timing...I made the assumption you had a fast morph. So as the morph goes across some lights come on in milliseconds. They just can't keep up. I get upset when my CCRs don't morph fluid, but that is just how it is. Slower morphs work better.

Sax

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I can not stress what Sax said enough.  Write a simple sequence that takes each RGB channel (one at a time) and steps through all the colors in order.  Then run that sequence and go out and watch it.  It's easy to tell if there is a problem.  I had to do this with my GE Color Effects bulbs to make sure I had the last of the problems resolved.  I had each bulb go from Black > Red > Yellow > Green > Cyan > Blue > Magenta > Red > Black over about 3 seconds.  Then same thing for the next channel - all 214 of them.  Fortunately this is very easy to do with a chase.  Proved without a doubt that I had all my GECE issues resolved.  Know what order the lights should come one when you watch it.  In my case it was easy as it just went from bulb to the next bulb along the eves.  As yours won't likely be as easy, make sure you know what light or string comes after what.  Make sure that the they turn on in the right order and have the right colors.  If not, then you know what to troubleshoot and what is known working.

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Just as an update... I did do a trouble shoot of the lights like Sax suggested. I started the hardware program and ran that controller with all Red's, Green's, and Blue's. I turned out that I did have the Green and Blue wires backwards. I fixed the problem.

I've also sequenced a couple of songs using the instant sequencing tool (what a life saver for this late start of the season).

It seems like the whole system does ok when running a sequence to music that was created using the instant sequencer. But when I play an animation sequence is when the lagging of the lights start.

When I have time this week I will try to separate the whole system onto two networks and see how it runs than.

Thanks everyone for the input. Its been invaluable!!

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