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Ron Boyd

S3 Updates: Will we get them soon?

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LOR,

 

Thanks for the recent update (3.12.0) 2014 show is running great. Just a small bit of lag on fast, multiple morphs. I had that last year with half as many channels so it's no problem. I'm probably the only person who will notice it anyway. The wife tells me I'm my own worst critic.

 

Now to my question. Seeing that most shows are up and running, I'm the type who starts planning for next year once I get this year going. One of the first things I do once I have my preliminary sketch for the next year, is to build my visualizer files that I will import to Superstar and start building the entire stage.

 

There have been rumors and comments that limits are going to be relaxed in the visualizer.

 

If this is so, will we see a new update soon for the visualizer? There are several ways around the limits, which I've done videos and helped countless people with this year, but they are time consuming and sometimes labor intensive to accomplish. To complete a file with over 5K RGB bulbs and well over 10k channels, takes a fair amount of time. Since I could not get my entire display into one visualizer this year, I had to hope the 4 different files I sequenced to were going to gel well. Of course, there were tweaks that were needed and not everything starts on the exact tenth of a second, but I can live with that.

 

So, LOR, will we see a visualizer update soon? It sure would make life easier. I know the software side is a major undertaking and I understand that writing said software is very labor intensive and takes a lot of time, so I'm not complaining.

 

As always, thank you for the great company you are and what you do for us.

 

Ron

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Agree Ron.. LOR is the only thing stopping me from growing right now. 23k channels and running great but my next move is a full matrix roof 4 inches apart. I want to see movies on the roof.

 

I am thinking a 4 foot fence with ziptied 2811's flat nodes. Roll it out and hook up would be great. That will be a 15 foot by 60 roof.... LOL

Edited by Jeff Messer
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Messer if you do that, that will more than double your channel count won't it? Wow!!!! You better take more than 2 weeks for setup next year. I think you are going to have a lot of work to do in the off season. I suspect by the March Mini, you'll have it all mapped out so we can see it? :P

 

Bowing down, I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy!!!

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Just thought I'd bring this up top. I know this is the busy season for everybody, including LOR, But I'd like to keep this somewhere near so it can be fresh every week or so.

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Ron,

 

I will not make a move on this till I know what LOR is coming out with. I have 4500 to install on the 5 trees first and waiting on the first sale I see. LOL.. Roof is not out of the question yet but waiting on software.

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Is the alpha version comes out soon?

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Now the 2014 season is done (just boxed up the last today), I am now just getting 2015 pre-sale announcements making me think about what new features LOR will be bringing out.   Could LOR please make some announcements shortly about the next "thing" ?

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I had hoped something would come out before the start of the year, but still nothing. Luckily I've had some help figuring out the work around for beginning DMX RGB in the current version. Making big steps and don't want to get too far Behind

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Work around for beginning dmx?

I have 2 CCRs, one dmx universe with over 50 elements, right around 1000 pixels running on a sans plus 5 AC controllers.

All work without any modifications, work arounds or special coding. Visualizer works for my entire Halloween and Christmas setups. Superstar is my sequencing software of choice but the sequencer works just fine too.

Now, when you start getting closer to Ron's yard you start having issues. But beginning DMX? What workaround could one need?

Sure, inputting all my elements and pixels into visualizer was time consuming and a real pain but it is only once. Channel management also painful but groups are key. And I only had to do it twice. (Christmas and Halloween channel layout is different).

I just wanted any new guy reading this thread to know that beginning dmx should have no special work arounds or requirements. LOR software works just fine.

Still, I am looking forward to any updates to the software, especially the incorporation of xlights features.

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Work around for beginning dmx?

I have 2 CCRs, one dmx universe with over 50 elements, right around 1000 pixels running on a sans plus 5 AC controllers.

All work without any modifications, work arounds or special coding. Visualizer works for my entire Halloween and Christmas setups. Superstar is my sequencing software of choice but the sequencer works just fine too.

Now, when you start getting closer to Ron's yard you start having issues. But beginning DMX? What workaround could one need?

Sure, inputting all my elements and pixels into visualizer was time consuming and a real pain but it is only once. Channel management also painful but groups are key. And I only had to do it twice. (Christmas and Halloween channel layout is different).

I just wanted any new guy reading this thread to know that beginning dmx should have no special work arounds or requirements. LOR software works just fine.

Still, I am looking forward to any updates to the software, especially the incorporation of xlights features.

 

Agreed. I guess I never thought of that. As long as the visualizer is under 1024 fixtures, including all Incan, LED and all RGB, everything will work just fine and dandy. You can see the entire show in the visualizer. S3 ran my show with almost 12K channels just fine this passed year. I had to sequence everything in Superstar with 4 different  visualizers. I just had to hope everything gelled with each other. Most everything was in sync, but I saw some things that weren't. The viewers will never notice it but I will and did.

 

I haven't been able to use the visualizer since about February of last year except for importing it in to Superstar. When I ran through the show after setup last year, was the first time I had seen everything together. 

 

Would really like to see the updates soon though, but will still trudge through the same as last year until they get here. (Hopefully soon)

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Agreed. I guess I never thought of that. As long as the visualizer is under 1024 fixtures, including all Incan, LED and all RGB, everything will work just fine and dandy. You can see the entire show in the visualizer. S3 ran my show with almost 12K channels just fine this passed year. I had to sequence everything in Superstar with 4 different  visualizers. I just had to hope everything gelled with each other. Most everything was in sync, but I saw some things that weren't. The viewers will never notice it but I will and did.

 

I haven't been able to use the visualizer since about February of last year except for importing it in to Superstar. When I ran through the show after setup last year, was the first time I had seen everything together. 

 

Would really like to see the updates soon though, but will still trudge through the same as last year until they get here. (Hopefully soon)

 

Agree, Ron.  Except, I'm to the point where I don't think I can trudge through any more.  S3 ran my show just fine (50 universes) this year.  I did, however, have to revert back to 3.9.0, as the memory management code that came along in 3.10.X and later would actually cause lots of lag and make effects look very "jerky".  I had the problems in 3.11.2, but they went away when I backed up to 3.9.0.  My only rationale is that it had to be the additional memory code that came along in 3.10.0.  My brute force hardware approach (translation:  very fast processor and lots of RAM) actually handled it better than the more elegant software approach from LOR.  However, like you, I was unable to view my entire show until my hardware was up outside, due to visualizer limitations.

 

My reason for having to change is actually the length of time I spend getting my pixel effects into my .lms file.  Though I can't say for sure, I'm guessing I spent an hour or more each song this past year waiting for it to open, doing cut-and-paste, and saving the files, including when I had failed LOR channels during show season and had to re-map channels in each song.  I effectively have a 15-song show (10 music, 5 voice announcements) and making a change on a single channel would take me 2 hours due to open/save time for those 15 songs.

 

I'd just like another update so I know what to expect.  I seem to remember (but my memory isn't great) Dan said they were going to release a new version for those who wanted to be part of an alpha test program back in early December.  I'm ready to sign up, especially since all my hardware is still up outside.  I really want to keep using LOR, as I prefer the timing fidelity (0.01 sec) that is available ONLY in the LOR software.  But we have no communication again.

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Work around for beginning dmx?

I have 2 CCRs, one dmx universe with over 50 elements, right around 1000 pixels running on a sans plus 5 AC controllers.

All work without any modifications, work arounds or special coding. Visualizer works for my entire Halloween and Christmas setups. Superstar is my sequencing software of choice but the sequencer works just fine too.

Now, when you start getting closer to Ron's yard you start having issues. But beginning DMX? What workaround could one need?

Sure, inputting all my elements and pixels into visualizer was time consuming and a real pain but it is only once. Channel management also painful but groups are key. And I only had to do it twice. (Christmas and Halloween channel layout is different).

I just wanted any new guy reading this thread to know that beginning dmx should have no special work arounds or requirements. LOR software works just fine.

Still, I am looking forward to any updates to the software, especially the incorporation of xlights features.

I was speaking of using the CCr's in the visualizer instead of drawing 600 pixels one by one in the visualizer and easier ways to other things like channel configuration.

I'll be running almost 800 pixels, RGB flood and a set of CCP's next year, should be a problem. Doesn't seem like a lot to you guys but for a pixel newbie it seems like a lot to me lol.

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I was speaking of using the CCr's in the visualizer instead of drawing 600 pixels one by one in the visualizer and easier ways to other things like channel configuration. I'll be running almost 800 pixels, RGB flood and a set of CCP's next year, should be a problem. Doesn't seem like a lot to you guys but for a pixel newbie it seems like a lot to me lol.

 

Nope, it's a bear to do just a pixel tree with single bulbs and DMX channels. This is the reason a lot of use the CCR fake out. I feel your pain.

 

I'd just like another update so I know what to expect.  I seem to remember (but my memory isn't great) Dan said they were going to release a new version for those who wanted to be part of an alpha test program back in early December.  I'm ready to sign up, especially since all my hardware is still up outside.  I really want to keep using LOR, as I prefer the timing fidelity (0.01 sec) that is available ONLY in the LOR software.  But we have no communication again.

 

Agreed here again. Although most all of my hardware and lights are down, It would still be nice to see the "Alpha" and be able to play around with it.

 

The Visualizer is, I think, one of the most wanted part of the software at the moment. A lot of us have a rough idea as to what we'll be changing next year. I have a solid plan as of now, bit that's always subject to change. I'll only be adding about 1000 channels or so in 2015, but that's changing up a few elements along with adding a few, and that needs to be mapped in the visualizer.

 

Until the updates come, I am continuing on as I did last year.

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I just added 5000 pixels to my channel layout overnight. I set them all in a folder along with the new LCC file and then ran the software Bobo created. It did all 17 songs in about 4 hours. That would have taken me days to do it one at a time. ImportOmatic gets my vote. Thanks for such a great tool BobO. Special thanks to Dougd for telling me about it. 

 

Jeff

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I too hope for an update from LOR.

 

Like Aaron, my savior was a faster computer to run the show.

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LOR does the opposite of "Under promise and over deliver".  They post their timeline 'hopes' that don't materialize.  I am surprised and disappointed they have not updated their plans yet.

Take a look at xlights/nutcracker.  It is free and the upcoming release of XL4 looks like it will be pretty good.  If LOR doesn't come up with software that exceeds what XLights is doing, it will be disappointing.  XLights expects their release in a few weeks. 

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For me, Nutcracker is a go to when I can't figure something out in Superstar or will take a lot of time to create. It's an effect generator, Sean said so himself. That being said, I like single pixel control over my elements as opposed to Nutcracker's element control. Sure it makes some cool effects and I do use them from time to time, but I do not want to do a full song sequence with it. Then there are just a bunch of cool effects that are just that, effects. XL4 will probably be a good sequencer, I'm sure, but I just want to have the control over each and every pixel in the display. Nutcracker cannot give me that control. If it can, I haven't found it and I would be using it more.

 

This is just my opinion and I am not bashing Nutcracker. Sean and his team have put a lot of effort and a lot of time into Nutcracker and it is greatly appreciated. To those who use it to do entire songs, kudos to you. I'm just not going to. I'm staying with LOR.

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And with LOR purchasing rights from xlights I really hope to see this effects generator incorporated. Added to superstar would be really cool. But just to the sequencer, still nice.

It would be nice to throw some effects in there every now and then. But I agree with Ron. Not the entire song. Same holds true for superstar auto sequencer. Parts of the song it is nice. But not the whole thing. At least in my opinion.

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For me, Nutcracker is a go to when I can't figure something out in Superstar or will take a lot of time to create. It's an effect generator, Sean said so himself. That being said, I like single pixel control over my elements as opposed to Nutcracker's element control. Sure it makes some cool effects and I do use them from time to time, but I do not want to do a full song sequence with it. Then there are just a bunch of cool effects that are just that, effects. XL4 will probably be a good sequencer, I'm sure, but I just want to have the control over each and every pixel in the display. Nutcracker cannot give me that control. If it can, I haven't found it and I would be using it more.

 

This is just my opinion and I am not bashing Nutcracker. Sean and his team have put a lot of effort and a lot of time into Nutcracker and it is greatly appreciated. To those who use it to do entire songs, kudos to you. I'm just not going to. I'm staying with LOR.

 

I do both.  For my pixel trees (mini & mega), I like NC for its effects and don't do any pixel-level sequencing.  However, for my roofline, I primarily did pixel-level sequncing (albeit with a lot of cut and paste).  For this, I used LOR.

 

NC is awesome.  I'm really looking forward to v4.

 

For me, what I really want LOR to do is to fix the horrendous load and save times for the files, take advantage of the 64-bit hardware and OS that we all have (to include using WAAAAYYYY more memory than they're able allocate in today's software), and to draw my whole display in visualizer.  And hopefully, do the latter more painlessly.  Non-CCR Pixels in Viz are terrible.

 

Similar to Ron's comment about XL, I'm not trying to bash LOR.  Just to point out where my current beefs are at (on top of the lack of communication).  I actually enjoy using the sequencer for my non-RGB stuff.  The show player runs my show very well, even with 50 universes of pixels, although I now know I'm on that hairy edge (trying to add 3 more songs to my 15-song show caused a memory allocation issue consistently this past year, so I had to break it into 2 shows).  I like the interactive capability (and use it in my show constantly).  And I like the level of precision available in the timing.  All these things make me want to stick it out.  However, the memory allocation issue will literally be a non-starter for me if it's not fixed, so I'm having to consider my other options until LOR makes at least that one go away.

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Ron, I use XL like you do, when I need to create something and cut and paste into LOR.  I created bells with 100 pixels that I think would be difficult to model in XL, so that single pixel control in LOR is great.  I still find LOR more flexible, so am waiting patiently for the major upgrade. 

I watch videos posted by people using XL and see effect after effect after effect, often times seemingly having nothing to do with the music.  Just a differently style of programming, but doesn't push the imagination envelope.

I just wish LOR would do provide more updates along the way.  We can accept delays, just let us know what is going on.

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My personal show was something like 2300ch. Even though I used some non-LOR products, I drew it as all LOR devices in the viz. This way I could take advantage of the CCR tool and not go over the limit. I created 2 sequence channels config. Both exact same except for one was for the viz, and the other was the actual seq I used in the show. Once I finished with the seq, I would just copy and paste to the show seq. I also used NC, SS and little of Madrix although not much....need more time to learn. But nothing beats manually seq with LOR. Way more control, but to manually create these same effects in LOR that takes NC to make....right now I would need to start on the 2020 show :-)

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Guess the question I have is that the update coming... are you going to have to have Superstar? I agree with the writer that NC is a effects tool more than a sequencing tool. If their update (NC) vastly improves it's sequencing...I may move. But it is going to need to make leaps and bounds to catch up with what I know on LOR. I used NC to make a clipboard copy of the effect...and pasted it in. That did work great. Sure wish I could see what it looked like ahead of time. My pixel tree alone crash vis (2880 channels).

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Come on LOR. You can do it!, in my Adam Sandler voice

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My personal show was something like 2300ch. Even though I used some non-LOR products, I drew it as all LOR devices in the viz. This way I could take advantage of the CCR tool and not go over the limit. I created 2 sequence channels config. Both exact same except for one was for the viz, and the other was the actual seq I used in the show. Once I finished with the seq, I would just copy and paste to the show seq. I also used NC, SS and little of Madrix although not much....need more time to learn. But nothing beats manually seq with LOR. Way more control, but to manually create these same effects in LOR that takes NC to make....right now I would need to start on the 2020 show :-)

 

Kevin, I've actually been doing that since late 2013. The problem with mine is, I have a ton of stuff that don't add up to 50 pixels. 125, 128, 136, etc. I use the DMX keywords for the import into Superstar, but that renders the visualization useless. Sure, I can see it in SS, but not with the other elements, so timing is a guess at best.

 

The visualizer right now is the main thing I need plus a step up on the SS license. I have the 40 CCR, but that would have only exported a little over half of the channels I had last year. This year's show, if I don't add anything else from here on out, will have over 15K channels. Even the rumored 80 CCR license will not do 15K. Just my 2 pixel trees alone will have 4800 channels this coming year, 3k on one and 1800 on the other. 

 

We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.

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I am still learning the visualizer and what it can do. I feel sure I will run two viz screen this year to watch my show. Channel count will go through the roof with the matrix I am making. Making plans for a fiber optic tree now. Hope it turns out good. Running around 23k of channels and adding 15000 more channels. Fingers crossed.

 

Jeff

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