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FM transmission Question

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Does anyone have any Ideas on how to transmit the audio signal wirelessly without using an FM transmitter, or does anyone have an inexpensive transmitter they would recommend to use.

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I've never heard of any way of transmitting a signal wirelessly without using a transmitter.  But then, there's probably lots of things I've never heard of...

 

For the money, there's no better transmitter than the CZH-05B.  They're all over Amazon and you should be able to get one for 50-60 bucks.

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An FM transmitter is how you do it.

 

As for cheep, I'll let someone else chime in.  I look for good, not cheep.

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Well there ARE wireless speakers, but they would cost more than the FM transmitter George is recommending!  

 

I have an FM transmitter, but was thinking of just putting wireless speakers outside in the display area for walkers, bicyclists, etc. but seems the cost is really high for these things, especially in a stereo set up, even a single speaker runs around $50-$80, stereo sets usually $120+.

 

So if it were me, I'd go with Georges' recommendation of the FM transmitter, definitely more cost effective.

 

I still have outdoor speakers, but I use my FM transmitter and an old stereo connected to the outdoor speakers.

 

It's the best, easiest and "cheapest" way to get sound outside to the display for folks not in vehicles.

Edited by Orville

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I run the FM transmitter like most here do but I put a receiver in the garage then wire outdoor rock speakers to it which are placed in the bushes out of sight.

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I use an FM transmitter and an old stereo in my basement. I then ran an speaker wire hook up from Menards to the outside outlet that I also hook my Cat5 cables through. Then simply plug in my speakers and with a waterproof outlet cover, the set up stays all year round.

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Seems like every year someone has to reinvent one thing or another. Sure there is bluetooth and WiFi. But neither of them is there a simple way to stream the audio from a sequence that is running in S3. Only way I know of is to either take the audio out of your computer and amplify it and then run wires outside to weather proof speakers. Or run the audio into an FM transmitter.

 

Now if some college boy wants to write some software to port streamed audio from S3 to the bluetooth adapter or to the WiFi transmitter then more power to them.

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I too use an FM transmitter, old stereo amplifier and outdoor speakers. I mount the speakers on each side of garage and some additional protection is provided by the roof overhang.

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I would be wary of any Bluetooth, wireless, or wifi scheme. There must be some latency involved in converting audio, sending it, then converting it back and amplifying it. If your sequences are tightly synced to pop on specific beats, you may notice the delays.

 

My setup is hardwired to the outdoor speakers, with an FM transmitter backup for the folks who don't want to brave the elements.

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I would be wary of any Bluetooth, wireless, or wifi scheme. There must be some latency involved in converting audio, sending it, then converting it back and amplifying it. If your sequences are tightly synced to pop on specific beats, you may notice the delays.

 

My setup is hardwired to the outdoor speakers, with an FM transmitter backup for the folks who don't want to brave the elements.

That's true of any wireless device, but it's also true of the FM transmitters too.

 

After all, they are also "wireless" devices that are sending that wireless signal to an FM radio, and they will lag.  And that lag can be noticeable, but if there is enough going on within the display, it's not as noticeable.  

 

If I run a test and see something lagging using the transmitter, I will turn on the channel a cell or two BEFORE the actual beat to compensate for that airwave lag time.  You'd have to do the same using most any type of wireless device.  

 

And LOR also sells those Wireless Linkers, so wouldn't you think there would still be some lag time even with using those in a display?  Again because they are a wireless device, and wireless signals travel slower than something hardwired, so there is always some sort of lag time using them.

 

That's why when you call in on a Radio Show contest and they put you on the air, they tell you to turn down/off your radio because of this lag time.  Of course the greater the distance the longer the lag time, it may not be as noticeable as one thinks, but that lag time is there just the same.

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That's true of any wireless device, but it's also true of the FM transmitters too.

 

After all, they are also "wireless" devices that are sending that wireless signal to an FM radio, and they will lag.  And that lag can be noticeable, but if there is enough going on within the display, it's not as noticeable.  

 

If I run a test and see something lagging using the transmitter, I will turn on the channel a cell or two BEFORE the actual beat to compensate for that airwave lag time.  You'd have to do the same using most any type of wireless device.  

 

And LOR also sells those Wireless Linkers, so wouldn't you think there would still be some lag time even with using those in a display?  Again because they are a wireless device, and wireless signals travel slower than something hardwired, so there is always some sort of lag time using them.

 

That's why when you call in on a Radio Show contest and they put you on the air, they tell you to turn down/off your radio because of this lag time.  Of course the greater the distance the longer the lag time, it may not be as noticeable as one thinks, but that lag time is there just the same.

 

How very unlucky. I've never had a lag in my FM transmission at my home display.

 

Also, the 'lag' you mention, when calling into a radio station is a lag, yes. However, it's a purposful lag called a 'delay.' If someone curses on the air, the delay is hit, and that portion of the audio never makes it to air. Thus if you leave the radio volume up when calling into a station by the time you hear them say, "Orville your on the air" then they've already hung up on you because you weren't there 7 or 15 seconds ago when it actuall happened.

 

I've seen displays using ELL's without having to do any compensation either.

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I've used four different transmitters, including the whole room model, and have never had any lag issues either.

 

Orv - you need to post the name and model of your transmitter to help insure that newbies know to stay away from it.

Edited by George Simmons

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There is a lag or delay!!! LOL, but its due to the speed of light/electricity and its in the microseconds if not the nanoseconds. Now if someone here can hear it, they've got pretty good ears. All kidding aside, digital to analog conversions, then outputting to the audio card, then to the fm transmitter and the fm transmitter being an analog device with integrated circuits, then the transmission distance to the fm receiver and reconverting it to analog audio, to the probable push-pull amplifier, to the speakers and lastly, the distance from there to the human ear...time adds up. I can assure you that on another field, you transmit something to a geo sync spacecraft on the uplink frequency, downlink it the receiver on a different frequency, decode, convert and transmit to analog devices for our ears to hear, all in all, takes up to 1 second of time. Of course, its traveling almost 45,000 miles, plus wire and etc.. Since none of us are uploading to XM-Sirius to play to our visitors...we don't have to worry about it.

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I think its the processing time involved in LOR actually reading and sending the commands across the network. The audio is happening a lot faster whereas the LOR communication takes more time to get to the controllers and for them to respond.

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I think its the processing time involved in LOR actually reading and sending the commands across the network. The audio is happening a lot faster whereas the LOR communication takes more time to get to the controllers and for them to respond.

 

I've seen very large displays, and have working knowledge of others, that do not have any lag that you speak of.

 

If commands being sent across the network were causing a lag problem then I could name 3 displays right off the top of my head that would have seen this lag by now.

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Then if that's true, there should be NO LAG times with any wireless device of any kind then.  So bluetooth or wireless speakers should have absolutely no lag times at all by that reasoning.

 

 So then what the OP stated about wireless and bluetooth speakers would not be at all true.  So that sounds like folks here are also calling the OP a liar in my opinion.

 

  Yes, I have seen lag times with FM transmitters, the cheapo cigarette lighter car versions, and the ones we use in our displays.  It happens, but as I stated, it usually IS NOT noticeable, on occasion, due to weather and atmospheric conditions it can, and does occur.    Most folks just don't really notice it.

 

And for the record, no point in mentioning the transmitter I currently use, it's no longer manufactured, so that would be a moot point in my opinion.

 

But I know how folks are on here, so I'll state what I am using: it's an Mobile Black Box Eclipse 4000 FM Stereo Transmitter, just so folks know, and it's been an excellent transmitter.  I've been using it since 2010 and will continue to do so, it works and that's all that matters anyway.

 

Oh BTW: if lag times are NOT so noticeable within a second, then why do folks here notice when the lights aren't spot on cue with the beat, and sometimes that's only a HALF-SECOND delay.    Sorry, I stick by my statements on lag times using any type of wireless devices.

 

Newer technologies may fix this, but like stated, it is barely noticeable unless you're looking for it.  

 

Just like some folks swear by Full Wave LED lights and claim they don't flicker, when, in fact, they will do so at very slow fades.  haven't seen any strand of LED that won't flicker at some point, whether or not they're Full or Half Wave doesn't matter, it's there but most folks really don't notice it.

 

Same with the lag time, it's there, just not that noticeable.

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My term of processing time, takes into account a lot of variables. Computer architecture to the selected comm port, CPU Speed, available resources such as ram, hard drive access data transfer rate and the buss speed of the architecture. Other things come into play as well such as the various background programs, AV, firewall, svhost comm attempts and so many others. If two people are using the same sequence with the same setup and only one is having lag times, then something is wrong with the one's computer, rs485 network, bad audio driver or even a corrupted OS. The BIOS might need updating which doesn't happen often but I've seen issues there.

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Oh BTW: if lag times are NOT so noticeable within a second, then why do folks here notice when the lights aren't spot on cue with the beat, and sometimes that's only a HALF-SECOND delay.    Sorry, I stick by my statements on lag times using any type of wireless devices.

 

If you see a half second delay in a sequence, then check the programming. It's not a FM transmission error.

 

A woman named Elsa once said, "Let it go."  You might want to consider that. 

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If you see a half second delay in a sequence, then check the programming. It's not a FM transmission error.

 

A woman named Elsa once said, "Let it go."  You might want to consider that. 

I'm done with it Don.  That's the last I'm saying about it.

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Orv - you've got to make up your mind.  Either you've seen lag so noticeable that you have to turn channels on early or you've seen lag that's there but not noticeable.  But then, how can there be lag if it isn't noticeable from a human perspective?  I'm so confused...

 

And no one called the OP a liar.  Please stop trying to put words in other people's mouth.    

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That's why when you call in on a Radio Show contest and they put you on the air, they tell you to turn down/off your radio because of this lag time.  Of course the greater the distance the longer the lag time, it may not be as noticeable as one thinks, but that lag time is there just the same.

 

No LAG is not the reason for them to tell you to turn down your radio. The reason is they are operating on anything from 5-10 second delay.  They tell you to turn down your radio so you don't get confused by talking with the host over the phone then hearing it  5-10 seconds later.  

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And no one called the OP a liar.  Please stop trying to put words in other people's mouth.    

People here have DONE that too me more times than I can count George, put THEIR words in my mouth, NOT what I originally had stated.  But I'm not going any further with that discussion either.  This is all I will say on that score.

 

And I'm not even going to respond any longer on this thread about the lag times any longer either, I told Don I am done with it, and I am not going to re-hash it or stir it along any further than it's already gone.

 

TTFN

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That's why when you call in on a Radio Show contest and they put you on the air, they tell you to turn down/off your radio because of this lag time.  Of course the greater the distance the longer the lag time, it may not be as noticeable as one thinks, but that lag time is there just the same.

 

No LAG is not the reason for them to tell you to turn down your radio. The reason is they are operating on anything from 5-10 second delay.  They tell you to turn down your radio so you don't get confused by talking with the host over the phone then hearing it  5-10 seconds later.  

I understand that.  However, a lot of the DJ's I've listened to on the radio stations I listen to locally in my area have called it "lag time", not delay time and that's why I called it that.  

 

Just so you understand how I came up with that term in my explanation in the first place.   So I learned the correct term of what it should be called by DJ's and not what it shouldn't have been called.

 

Sorry Don, just wanted to explain to DE, how I and where my info came from calling it "lag" time in the first place.

 

BFN

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I understand that.  However, a lot of the DJ's I've listened to on the radio stations I listen to locally in my area have called it "lag time", not delay time and that's why I called it that.  

 

Just so you understand how I came up with that term in my explanation in the first place.   So I learned the correct term of what it should be called by DJ's and not what it shouldn't have been called.

 

Sorry Don, just wanted to explain to DE, how I and where my info came from calling it "lag" time in the first place.

 

BFN

 

Perhaps you can use your new knowledge and educate those DJ's on what it's really called.

 

The process used by radio and TV stations to prevent (or try to) the broadcasting of objectionable material is called a "delay".

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