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066.0gto

E1.31 & RJ45 pinout

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When I setup a universe in the advanced settings of LOR, and, I pick multicast. I get an IP address.
 
1. Is the LOR software now sending out an E1.31 signal?
 
2. What is the pin out for E1.31 on RJ45? What does each color represent? ie: LOR uses 3,4,5,&6. they represent data+,data-,volt+, & volt-. I have not seen the E1.31 pinout on the forum, and i have read through most of the E1.31 and hardware postings.
 
Thank you in advance.

 

 

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Edited by 066.0gto

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E1.31 is a protocol that is encapsulated in TCP/IP. And the cat5 cable in installed in the normal wired network on the side or back of your computer (sans an adapter). So the pinout of the RJ-45 / Cat cable is the same as a Ethernet cable. Now for a change I get to tell someone forget anything you know about RS-485 and LOR network when working with the E1.31.

 

And yes 066 LOR does talk in E1.31 also.

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066, could you shoot me your reference for your color code?  I'd like to look at it.  

 

Yes, S3 will drive LOR and E1.31 commands simultaneously.  Unicast is better for smaller displays up to 7 universes, but multi-cast will certainly work too.

 

 

As for the pinouts, for clarification, let's qualify my statements by saying that this discussion is sticking with the plain ethernet cable configurations, no dual wiring, no loopback cables, no crossover cables, etc.  

 

Max-Paul's suggestion to think plain old Ethernet is spot on.  If you choose that route, I think your color coding may be a little off spec, but you could really get away with just about any color code you want as I'll explain later, but that's not recommended.

 

 

There are two standard color coding specifications commonly used for RJ-45 connections in the IT industry, the most common, and the one I ALWAYS use for normal patching/wiring/etc is T-568B and is available with a simple web search.   (Basically its Left-right with the latch pin downward/Pin1 to Pin8: Orange/white, Orange, Green/White, Blue, Blue/white, Green, Brown/white, brown).  (Just like the resistor color code spec, after a few hundred, you'll never be able to get that code out of your head ever again.)    I've included a quick photo of jacks which nearly always have the two standards printed right on the side of the jacks.

 

Nearly all the factory cables I buy use this T-568B standard.   If you always use that one, you'll never have any trouble down the line if you later choose to split off as start doing something a little more exotic later or start using factory cables at some point.

 

He're the ground truth, and it may draw fire from others, but it doesnt really matter what your color code is, as long as you keep pairs together and you're consistent in linking the corresponding pins of each connector together every time (Pin1 to Pin1, etc. )    Electricity doesn't know what color insulation it's using.  The key is to always do it the same way every time and use a LAN cable tester immediately after wiring as a minimum.  They testers are like cars - all different costs and features.  I've attached a picture as an example.  Think of even the cheap ones as continuity testers on steriods.  They will tell you when you have a miswire before it can do any damage. 

 

Bottom line: I highly recommend always sticking to the T568B wire color standard, but again, the key is always do it the same time, every time and test the cables before you use them.

Edited by Bizywk

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Electricity doesn't know colors, but signal propagation does behave differently if you split pairs. For 100M Ethernet it doesn't matter if pin 1 and 2 use the brown pair, the green pair, the orange pair, or the blue pair, but for any distance and reliability, the must be a pair. Same with 3 and 6, they must be a pair.

I worked with a really bright guy who figured it didn't matter, wires up a bunch with 1,2 as a pair, 3,4 as a pair, 5,6 as a pair, and 7,8 as a pair. He comes to me wanting to know what is wrong with our $15,000 cable tester that it keeps failing these cables. I asked him if he got any of them longer than 10 feet to actually work. He had not. Told him that the cable tester is doing its job. Without 3,6 being a pair, it is both radiating out too much energy, and absorbing too much interference. Told him to wire up a few with brown on 3,6 and blue on 1,2, and that they would pass the cable tester, and actually work, and confirm that color doesn't matter, but pairs do.

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The original question is vague. If we know what kind of lights/controllers you wish to use, then we can give more specific answers.

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I am curious to what the pinout of E1.31 is? All of the other pinouts are on here for LOR & DMX.

 

1. When you add a DMX universe in the network settings does LOR send DMX out pins 1&2, and still send the LOR signals on pins 3,4,5, &6?

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I am curious to what the pinout of E1.31 is? All of the other pinouts are on here for LOR & DMX.

E1.31 comes out of the network interface card (not the LOR adapter) on your computer. It has the same pinout as Ethernet.

 

 

1. When you add a DMX universe in the network settings does LOR send DMX out pins 1&2, and still send the LOR signals on pins 3,4,5, &6?

No. You need separate adapters for LOR and DMX. The answer to your question about which pins are used for DMX depends on which adapter you use.

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And to clarify one of your misconceptions 066. I believe that When LOR uses a cat 5 cable. I believe that the data is on 4 & 5. While 3 & 6 are used to supply 9 VDC to things like LOR's Light Linker radios. Even though RS-485 can use 4 wires (2 pair) or 2 wire (1 pair). LOR went with the two wire configuration.

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You might be getting confused with the THREE different kinds of networks;

 

1. LOR network always has the same connectors and the same pinout:  4 & 5 are the network data, and 3 is power Positive, 6 is power Ground, 1,2, 7, & 8 are not used. (CAT 5 connectors). One dongle is needed at the start of each LOR network.

 

2. DMX always has the same pinout, but there are two different connectors.

     Pin 1 is ground, pins 2 and 3 are data. Most US installations use the XLR style of connector for theatre and commercial applications and the CAT 5 connector is used mostly in Europe but many DIY people are using it in the US these days. It takes one USB to DMX dongle for each DMX network.

 

3. E1.31 always has the same pinout and the same connectors and is standard network wiring and has a CAT 5 connector at each end. It does not need a dongle, just an Ethernet network connector at the back or side of your computer. It can go through standard network hubs and switches and routers.

 

It gets confusing because other people start using the extra pins for various reasons and there is no longer any standards.

Then it becomes dangerous to use some of these "custom" wirings because you could start destroying your equipment.

 

If you keep to the standard stuff, you're OK.

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Even with standard wiring, plugging a LOR controller to an Ethernet port can kill the Ethernet port.

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Pin 1 is ground, pins 2 and 3 are data. Most US installations use the XLR style of connector for theatre and commercial applications and the CAT 5 connector is used mostly in Europe but many DIY people are using it in the US these days.

The DMX RJ-45 (Cat5 connector) pinout is:

 

1. Data +

2. Data -

7. Ground

 

The wiring standard also specifies other pins for the 2nd DMX universe, but nobody uses that.

 

Since Cat5 is twisted pair, it is theoretically possible to run both LOR and DMX on the same cable:

 

1. DMX Data +

2. DMX Data -

3. +9v

4. LOR Data +

5. LOR Data -

6. LOR Ground

7. DMX Ground

8. unused

 

Before you used your cable in this way, you would need to check your DMX equipment to make sure it doesn't try to use the 2nd universe, and just passes the unused pins through.

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But Ken, what is the pin out for Cat 6 then? Is it the same as cat 5 or is this a totally different pin out?  Just busting your chops to call it a cat 5 connector versus Ethernet connector / pin out.

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Cat-6 uses the same pinout as Cat-5.  However, that said, there are a few differences in how ethernet is carried on either cable.  Gigabit normally uses more of the wires than shower speeds.  But if you wire the 4 pairs correctly, gigabit will work on either one (within some distance limits).

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E1.31 is a protocol that is encapsulated in TCP/IP. And the cat5 cable in installed in the normal wired network on the side or back of your computer (sans an adapter). So the pinout of the RJ-45 / Cat cable is the same as a Ethernet cable. Now for a change I get to tell someone forget anything you know about RS-485 and LOR network when working with the E1.31.

 

And yes 066 LOR does talk in E1.31 also.

 

Yes, I picked the term CAT 5 intentionally because it usually fits better inside the LOR control boxes with no boot or an altered one.

 

Not so with CAT 6, which seems to have a more difficult boot to alter, and shielding makes it stiffer to manipulate.

 

And the LOR website calls it CAT 5 also. Trying to be consistent here, and easy for a newbie to digest.

 

Since the OP seems not to be an engineer, I try not to delve deep into the finer points of lighting and networking.

 

It's a Ladder of Abstraction thing.

Edited by Ken Benedict

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Ken, I understand not confusing the newbie. But for the sake of discussing. Both Cat 5 and Cat 6 cable can come with or without shielding. What makes Cat 6 stiffer is that Cat 5 pairs are slowly spun around each other (slight twisting of the 4 pair). While the 4 pair in Cat 6 also have a slight twist. The cable I have worked with in the past has a "+" plastic looking thing running the length of the cable keeping the pair  further apart from each other.

Edited by Max-Paul

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Not even a shielded connector.

Tighter tolerances in the twist rates, tighter tolerances on the difference in twist rate from pair to pair, and usually spacing between pairs.

The connectors are also designed for assembly with the the twist maintained closer to the finished end of the connector.

Above answer for cat5 vs 6.

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Thats one I wish I could put my hands on is a Cat cable tester that would not only test the wiring of the RJ-45 connector. But also the technique used, like as you mentioned klb. How well I do or do not maintain the twist up to the back of the contacts inside of the connector. I think that kind of tester actually sends a 100 Mhz signal and then looks for crosstalk on other pairs. Looks at loss of the signal.

But then too, maybe I dont want to know how badly I do. :rolleyes:

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I know you can find some test tools that will identify split pairs for about $50 to $70.

Really good test tools generate a frequency sweep against one pair at a time. They measure both how much energy leaks into each of the other pairs, and also the time delay between the pulse and the signal received, so you can tell how far down the cable the flaw is. They can graph all the behaviors against frequency and time (cable distance). But they usually have prices in the range of $10s of thousands of dollars.

I have found that with ones that can test cat6 patch cable, (much more strict than a end to end channel rest) if I use cat5e 350+ cable, and car6 connectors, I get a higher percentage that pass cat6 patch cable test the. Store purchased TIA verified patch cables.

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The actual name for the plastic connector is "8P8C modular connector".

 

Everybody (and I mean everybody who sets up computers, not just people in our hobby) calls them an RJ45, but that term actually refers to an obsolete telco standard.

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Then the standard must have gone obsolete after the birth of the 8P8C connector. Hence why so many of us old farts still refer to it as a RJ-45 plug or socket.  So going to take a shot at it. Would the standard RJ-11 now be known as a 4P4C? If so, then I think I understand the logic they are using.

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The RJ standards refer to the pinout, For instance the RJ11 standard uses a 6P2C (6-position, 2-conductor) connector, and specifies that pins 3 and 4 are the telephone line. RJ14 uses a 6P4C connector, and specifies in addition that the 2nd phone line uses pins 2 and 5 (but in opposite polarity from line 1). RJ25 uses a 6P6C connector, and is for 3 lines.

 

I don't know if the RJ45 standard actually ever existed, because I can't find any information about it, other than a statement that "RJ45" is the informal designation for T568A/B.

Edited by Steven

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And if you are chasing historical footnotes,the RJ standards specify both connector and pin out. For example. RJ11 specifies household phone jacks. But there are other RJ standards for the same connector, for different applications. While current usage of RJ45 covers the connector only, not the pinout.

But even the telephone industry that created the RJ standard uses the RJ45 designation in ways that apparently aren't actually the standard. For example many T1 smart jacks present the signals to the user on an 8P8C which are always referenced as RJ45 jacks.

Aside from discussions like this, and a rare technical document for high end connectors, I don't think I have ever heard/seen them referenced as 8P8C.

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