Any guesses as to the problem?

[Bizywk]

Years of static displays and never once blew a GFI, and this display has been rock steady since Thanksgiving.    Welcome to the big leagues I guess.

 

 

We've having weird weather here in the Midwest.  Its warm, no snow/ice as normal and we're getting a generous steady rain now for more than 30 hours straight.  Flash floods warnings are interrupting radio and TV shows and the weather radio wont quit alarming about intense squal lines on their way.     Its soggy and nasty out there, and I expected that my GFI problem would be moisture in a cord out at the fixture end, but the GFI is blowing as fast as I can reset it without any show being run.   If its tripping without any of the fixtures getting power, doesn't that indicate that it isn't likely a fixture (unless I'm leaking electricity past a controller of course).   I isolated the problem to a single LOR AC Gen3 residential controller.  the controller is bone dry tucked inside the LOR factory case, and that case is kept inside another bone dry large, weather tight, ruggedized, plastic footlocker.  Even the controller's 16 output plugs are inside the larger container dry as a bone     Standing in the rain troubleshooting, I was envious of the controller's environment.   

 

The GFI trips repeatedly when just the left side of the controller is plugged in and there doesn't seem to be any problem at all with the right side of the same controller.  There is no control "ON Signal" being sent to energize any of the controller's  lighting circuits (Although I have had a problem with one of the eight LED mini-trees that seem to have one of it's channels remain on at 10% intensity during all show times, then cut back off after the sequences).     

 

As a troubleshooting step, I unplugged the hot black wires (Spade Connectors) from within the controller housing , and reconnected each of the 8 outputs on that left bank one at a time, and GFI trips each time. I was expecting to find one or maybe two channels with a problem, but it tripped the breaker each and every time.   Weird.     I obviously don't have a schematic of the board to troubleshoot further. 

 

Has anyone else encountered a GFI problem that affects only half a controller, during non-show times, and doesn't seem directed at a single output channel?      Does anyone have any ideas on how to troubleshoot further?    I don't want to run the show tonight, but I'd like to have the problem in hand before tomorrow night's show.

[MikeERWNC]

I found the end of a strand of lights pointing straight up on my roof line.

When it rained the socket filled with water and tripped the GFCI.

 

I then put a piece of duct tape on the ends of all of my light strands, no more tripping.

[MikeERWNC]

I have two separate power sources running each controller.

One GFCI tripped only killed half of the controller. The other 8 channels were working fine.

[atver]

Can you test your LOR on another GFI plug to make sure the GFI is not over sensitive?  I've had a new GFI plug circuitry sensitivity change after in operation few months on the same load..  The GFI plug was found defective, replaced and it solved my problem.

[FarrOut]

Can you test your LOR on another GFI plug to make sure the GFI is not over sensitive?  I've had a new GFI plug circuitry sensitivity change after in operation few months on the same load..  The GFI plug was found defective, replaced and it solved my problem.

Or, just swap the two inputs and see if the problem moves.

[plasmadrive]

A long shot if the GFI itself is not bad... unplug the cords from the lights at the dongles.  See if that still pops your new, or known good GFI.  If it does pop you have a localized problem.  If not you may have issues with ever one of the strings that are plugged into them. 

 

Another very long shot... make sure N is N on both inputs. 

[mendo15]

I had this problem on Saturday during a show. Try to reset the outlet where the controller is plugged in.

Martin

[-klb-]

Power leaking into a neutral will also trip a GFCI. But most of my no load GFCI trips are dirty water in a wet connection between an inlet cord, and the extension cord feeding it, since ground is also present and quite close to be a problem. This year I have a lot more portable panels with GFCI and in use covers right within the controllers cord reach.

[a31ford]

OK, the left side is the side that ALSO does the controllers electronics,

 

UNPLUG the network cable(s) and try it again, IF it still trips, THEN. it's something on channels 1 to 8, BUT, I have a funny feeling that once you unplug the network cables, the GFI will not trip.

 

Waiting for the results.....

 

Greg

[mixnight]

As an electrician I know must of the GFCI receptacles are not in a dedicated circuit, that means another regular receptacles are connected to the GFCI along the house (kitchen, bathroom and garage are the most common GFCI circuits), so check if the GFCI that is tripping is controlling another receptacle that is making it trip.

The real solution is to have a dedicated circuit to the controllers from the panel to the controllers side with it own breaker or breakers.

[Max-Paul]

Quote Biz "As a troubleshooting step, I unplugged the hot black wires (Spade Connectors) from within the controller housing , and reconnected each of the 8 outputs on that left bank one at a time, and GFI trips each time. I was expecting to find one or maybe two channels with a problem, but it tripped the breaker each and every time.   Weird.     I obviously don't have a schematic of the board to troubleshoot further."

 

Ok, so if I got the right. You have removed the hot lead from the side that is giving you grief. Plugged back in the liights and at some point the GFI trips. How can that be? I say your hot and neutral leads have been reversed somewhere. Maybe at the socket, extension cord or some how at the controller. But what you telling me is that the actual hot is going to the neutral terminal and going out to the lights. You are seeing some leakage to earth ground. Enough to trip the GFI. Get a volt meter and put one probe in the ground. Now touch the other probe to your black wire and your white wire. Which one has 120VAC? If the white wire, then see above for possible place the hot got swapped onto the white wire.

[Bizywk]

I finally isolated the trouble to water in a number of fixture cords mounted down the line.   Apparently, and very unexpectedly, I have a voltage leaking somehow through the controller to the fixtures which has to be feeding over from the other bank.  I confirmed this when I took my mobile air compressor out in the yard and blew air into all the mini-tree light strands.   Once I did that, the problem instantly cleared.  I had a very slight dim glow on one tree (LED) afterward.   I really wish I could get my hands on a schematic to further determine how this could happen.  It was my understanding that only the logic circuit bridged between the left and right half of a controller.  

 

I marked the controller, logged it in my LOR notebook notes, and will have to keep a close eye on that one for next year.    It goes to show that there must be a great respect always given to electricity even when it appears its safe. Electricity will find a path one way or another.  

 

Thanks for al the input guys.     Its nice to be able to count on friends.

[-klb-]

Have you double checked that hot and neutral are not swapped to that inlet?

Otherwise you have power leaking in/out your neutral on one or more of those strands. Not sure

Where the voltage causing the leak is sourced.

[Bizywk]

That theory is plausible and would yield this symptom.  Early on, I checked this visually on my own and again whent it came up earlier in the thread, and found that the color codes are right and consistent with a shared common bus.  I bought the whole kit, new, which includes both the input and output power cords.   I've not yet heard of a polarity error in the AC supply cord straight from a factory, but we're all human afterall.   I'll bust out the ohm meter and unpack the controller this weekend and check electrically.