Jump to content
Light-O-Rama Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Tom B.

CMB16D - Not Fading LED MR16 Floods

Recommended Posts

Has anyone tested the new CMB16D with MR16 LED Floods?

They do not fade ... we have either all on or off. Only one flood is attached to each channel. They are 2 Watt LED Floods from BestHongKong via Wirekat on Planetchristmas.

They look great ... but do not fade.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

T.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are not sure why that brand does not fade. We did test it with LED spots from Action Lighting and they did fade. T. is going to send us one of the LEDs to play with

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeff Millard wrote:

Some of the MR 16 LEDs use a cap to limit current. -klb- gave a pretty good description of what happens when a cap is used in this thread.

Jeff


After my Christmas display comes down, I intend look into what exactly was going on with some CF black lights in my Halloween display. When either of the black lights was turned on, any dimmed channels went full brightness. Right now I can not think of any explanation that completely fits from a phase angle perspective, and I would think if it was related to dv/dt (which should not be the case with snubberless triacs), it would turn on channels that were off, not just dimmed.

Once I have stuff down, I will hook up one of my controllers and the florescent black lights and an incandescent load, and hook it all up to my scope. Hopefully that will give some insight on the CF issue.

My description on the Cap limited behavior is aimed primarily at the LED failure mode that some have described, and why the LED fails. I don't know if in all cases the phase angle dimming is actually firing as expected, or if there is yet another misbehavior happening as well. If I get my hands on some LED's with issues by the time I look into the CF lamps impacting other channels, I will investigate the LED issues as well, to see if I can confirm that the phase angle control is working as expected, and that it is a harmonic issue causing the failure to dim.

Since I am only looking to do on/off control on the CF, it may be possible to add some filtration, or otherwise eliminate that problem.

On capacitively limited LED strings, I don't think there is any general way to successfully phase angle dim them without some risk of over current and LED failure.

- Kevin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tom,
I am going to guess that it is an issue with the frequency of the oscillator on the PWM verses the possible capacitor value in the bulbs.
I had read your other post on this and it is the only conclusion I can come up with.
I am sure LOR will get it figured out pretty quickly if this is the case! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am also having this problem with the new DC board not fading the MR16 LED Floods. These are the ones that I got on the group buy from wirecat that Tom B. also has.

The Red will fade a little and at 1% they are about 75% brightness. The Green do not fade at all. At 1% they are just as bright as they are at 100%. I hooked these floods up to a power supply that allows me to adjust the voltage from 3V to 12v. As I would turn down the voltage, the intensity would go down like you would expect. They work great.

I hooked up a volt meter to a LOR DC Channel and my meter confirmed that the voltage was changing correctly on the LOR channels as I changed the intensity on the DC LOR Board.

People are using another brand of DC Boards with no problems with these Floods.

-Richard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did LOR get one of these floods yet? If not I can send them one. I have 80 of these floods and if I can't get the LOR DC board to work with them, I have to order a different brand of DC controller (that just so happens to work with the LOR signal). I really don't want to spend the cash since I bought the LOR one but I have no other options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just an FYI - The MR16 I got for the group buy were from a manufacturer in China called Easy LED.

We did extensive testing of these before the group but unfortunately we were not using the LOR DC board (it wasn't released yet)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dan,

Have you had any more time to look into why these LED Floods (I sent you a sample) aren't fading ... or better yet ... have you and your elves been able to work on a fix?

Thanks,

T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tom B. wrote:

Dan,

Have you had any more time to look into why these LED Floods (I sent you a sample) aren't fading ... or better yet ... have you and your elves been able to work on a fix?

Thanks,

T


There were two batches of these LED floods and the 2nd batch don't fade right out of the box.

More info can be had at the thread at

http://planetchristmas.mywowbb.com/forum12/17638.html

Basically you need to put a resistor on each LED for it to work correctly. I tested these floods out with a d-light board and a LOR board and they behave exactly the same so this is not a LOR issue only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tom B. wrote:

Dan,

Have you had any more time to look into why these LED Floods (I sent you a sample) aren't fading ... or better yet ... have you and your elves been able to work on a fix?

Thanks,

T


An engineer has made some firmware modificaiton but they are not stable. It is unfortunate that this came up so late in the year when there is so little spare time... No promises but it is getting some attention.

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dan,

Any luck on this problem?

Thanks,

T.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tom,

Wirekat said on another forum that there were two different orders of these MR16 floods. The first order worked fine, but when he placed the second order, the factory changed the value of one resistor in the floodlight without letting him know. This caused the MR16s in the second order to not dim. FYI, he is considering a third order of these MR16s now and they will be manufactured according to the original specs.

Edit: to correct spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tom B. wrote:

Dan,

Any luck on this problem?

Thanks,

T.

Hi Tom,

We were just about finished with the modifictions to support those LEDs but ran out of time for this season. Wish we had known about it a few weeks earlier and we would have pushed to get it finished for the 2007 season but it was a LOT of work to support them.

Anyhow, we can dim them and we will have a firmware change to support dimming of this style LED. You will have to select the type of LED used and configure the CMB16D in the Hardware Utility. Release date TBD.

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dan,

Thanks, and I'm glad you found a solution. It'll be fun adding this capability to my show.

All the best,

Tom

PS: It was a great season ... My thanks to you and your associates!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dan,

Is it going to be possible to dim different styles of Mr-16 flood lights? For example, The first order from Wirekat were easily dimmable while the second batch was not. The new firmware patch will solve the problem of the second batch but can I still use the first batch also with the same controller?

Thanks, Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris A wrote:

Dan,

Is it going to be possible to dim different styles of Mr-16 flood lights? For example, The first order from Wirekat were easily dimmable while the second batch was not. The new firmware patch will solve the problem of the second batch but can I still use the first batch also with the same controller?

Thanks, Chris

Chris,

The CMB16D will be able to control both types of LED flood lights BUT one particular card my be limited to a certian type of LED so all 16 channels would need to be the same. The best case senerio will be that you will be able to set it up so that channels 1-8 can be one type of LED and the other 8 channels could be a different type BUT we may not have be be ale to do it that way.

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dan,

Any update on the firmware change for dimming the MR16 floods.

Thanks,

Richard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

That project has been on hold but we will dig it out and try and get it working for this season. As I recall, it was close.... We could dim the okay but there were some bugs that had to be fixed.

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Dan,
I am new to this. The DC board that I rcvd from the sale was very simple to set up and start using. Was turning lights on and off within minutes of setting up. Fantastic product.
I have noticed the same indications as everyone else.
After about 50% intensity, the brightness change is not noticelable.
It does react to dimming better with the resistor in series with the LED, but of course
as all have stated, does not react like a normal incandescant bulb. This does not surprise about LED's
At about 1% intensity just like all have stated it shuts off completely.
All said,
I am quiet pleased with I am seeing. It dims enough to serve the purpose for my plans of this year.
Thanks for a wonderful product. I have yet to play with the AC board. But expect the same quality results.

Richard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

rmturner54 wrote:

Thanks Dan,
I am new to this. The DC board that I rcvd from the sale was very simple to set up and start using. Was turning lights on and off within minutes of setting up. Fantastic product.
I have noticed the same indications as everyone else.
After about 50% intensity, the brightness change is not noticelable.
It does react to dimming better with the resistor in series with the LED, but of course
as all have stated, does not react like a normal incandescant bulb. This does not surprise about LED's
At about 1% intensity just like all have stated it shuts off completely.
All said,
I am quiet pleased with I am seeing. It dims enough to serve the purpose for my plans of this year.
Thanks for a wonderful product. I have yet to play with the AC board. But expect the same quality results.

Richard.




You will notice that the AC LED strings will do almost the same thing. Get to about 50% intensity and will will not notice much change after that.

Check your LED strings first to see how they work using the hardware utility and then check them using a sequence.

It does change the effect some but maybe you like how they work anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has this been fixed on the LOR DC board now I have a box full of the MR 16 lights from wirecat group buy 2 or is there a firmware upgrade I got my DC board about 2 months ago and havent used it yet

Dale L

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I havent had a chance to play with the led string lights yet. I ordered a ton of them from Paul . They havent arrived yet, but having said that, everything i have researched and read on this forum and PC tells me that they will be fine and react more like an incandescant that the MR16 floods.

I too have the MR16's from wirekat. They look great at night and will fit my purpose for first year animation.

I dont post a lot, I am more of a research kind of guy. I read a ton before I act .

Thanksfor the info

Richard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dale wrote:

Has this been fixed on the LOR DC board now I have a box full of the MR 16 lights from wirecat group buy 2 or is there a firmware upgrade I got my DC board about 2 months ago and havent used it yet

Dale L


Hi Dale,

We have not finished the major enhancement required to the CMB16D so that it can dim the MR16 bulbs. This is not a fix to the CMB16D as it was not broken:). The CMB16D does dim bulbs designed to be dimmed uisng PWM however the MR16s that you are talking about are not really designed to be dimmed in that fashion. "Normal" LEDs and incandescent bulbs will dim fine with the CMB16D. We have something that almost works (it dims the MR16s you are talking about very nicely), but it has some bugs in it that we have not yet worked out.

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree - The LOR DC was not broken and the MR16 LED's were never designed to be dimmed. The work around we found was to put a 20 ohm (2 watt) resistor (22 ohm is what I supply) in series with the MR16 (either leg). The MR16's are actually designed to be AC and DC. The dimming curve is not linear and dims differently than incandescent and LED strings.

It was unfortunate that the LED factory I ordered from changed their circuitry between group buy #2 and #3 because they dimmed without a resistor then.

They actually work fairly well for a product (the MR16) that was never designed to be dimmed.

I set up a test with the MR16's so that I knew what to expect when I sequence a song.

I also setup a test with Paul's LED's so I know what to expect when I sequence those.

Kevin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...