What do I need for RGB?

[musicman130]

Next year we will be doing a Halloween display and I want to use RGB spots and floodlights.  I am thinking of using the RGB rectangle strips from Holiday coro and making my own floods and spots.  From what I understand I need some kind of controller for them, I was thinking the "tiny pix pixel controller" to control them all, but I don't know if that will be all I need or not.  I have regular LOR boxes for all the regular lights for the trees,bushes and such but I believe you need something for the RGB's am I correct?  I use the USB48B to control my LOR boxes.
 
Thanks

[MazdaFan]

Ok... what you need to do pixels.

 

Your controller is a good start, but its only going to control 1 DMX universe (512 channels).  To convert that to the number of pixels its going to control, divide that by three, so that controller will control 170 pixels.  Any more, and you are going to need another controller.

 

Next, you are going to need a power supply for your controller.  Holidaycoro sells supplys, so you will probably end up buying it there.  Be aware that the longer your string is, the more amperage it draws, so you may need an additional power supply to inject power somewhere down the string.  This allows you to use the smaller gage wire that comes with the strings.  You might also have to inject power if you notice that the pixels at the end of your string are dimmer than the ones at the beginning of the string... You may not need to, but its something to keep in mind.

 

Next, you are going to need a DMX dongle to send your lights their commands.  There are a lot of dongles out there, so its going to be up to you to do your homework and figure out what will work for you.  Currently, LOR supports "Raw DMX", "Entec DMX Pro USB", "Lynx" and E1.31.  I'm not too sure about the first two, but Lynx is a "do it yourself" dongle.  Its not a hard build, but it does take some soldering skill.  E1.31 is DMX over Ethernet and to do that, you have to have the advanced license.

 

That, and a lot of patience learning how to sequence RGBs, is pretty much it.  So, once you decide how many lights you want you can proceed to gather the rest of the equipment.  I'd suggest getting samples of your lights to go with your chosen controller to see how they behave before you pull the trigger and make a big buy only to find out you don't have what you really want.

 

Jamie

[musicman130]

Is the E 1.31 using the LOR485 to send the DMX to devices?  I have heard that you don't NEED a dongle.  Is there a reason that a dongle is better then just using the 485 to carry the DMX signal?a

 

I pretty much have the lights figured out.  going to make 9 spots for the tombstones and 3 or 4 floods for the house. 

 

Now there is 1 thing I am confused on, I was looking at dumb/basic RGB LEDs.  After looking at the site more the tiny pixel controller says it's for smart pixels.  I am now confused, and feel dumb, on what dumb means and smart means.  so if I'm using dumb ones does that mean I don't use the tiny pix and I use something else instead?

 

thanks

[tallan]

Is the E 1.31 using the LOR485 to send the DMX to devices?  I have heard that you don't NEED a dongle.  Is there a reason that a dongle is better then just using the 485 to carry the DMX signal?a

 

I pretty much have the lights figured out.  going to make 9 spots for the tombstones and 3 or 4 floods for the house. 

 

Now there is 1 thing I am confused on, I was looking at dumb/basic RGB LEDs.  After looking at the site more the tiny pixel controller says it's for smart pixels.  I am now confused, and feel dumb, on what dumb means and smart means.  so if I'm using dumb ones does that mean I don't use the tiny pix and I use something else instead?

 

thanks

 

Hey Musicman,

 

dumb mean the whole string of lights is controlled as one so you use it for color changes for the most part. Smart allows you to control each light (or small groups of lights) down the string allow you to create chases up and down the string like the CCR's.

 

Hope that helps a little. 

 

Tallan

[scubado]

Smart is controlling each individual bulb or pixel.  Smart ribbons 3 leds is one pixel.  A 50 bulb string is 50 rgb channels or 150 channels.  Dumb ribbons or strings, all leds on the ribbon are all controlled by one rgb channel.

[edvas69]

If all the OP wants to do is add some dumb RGB lights to be used for floods then all he needs is the LOR CMB24D and a 12volt power supply. This way you dont need to worry about using DMX and can keep your system simple using the LOR protocol.

[musicman130]

All I do want to do is add floods and the spots.  however, the CMB24D only will do 24 channels, or 8 RGB lights (from what I understand at least) and I want to do 9 spots and 3 or 4 floods which equals 46 or 49 channels so I would need 2+ just to do this.  I am trying to do it the cheapest way possible and buying 2 of those boxes is definately NOT a cheap way to do it.  That is why I am probably going to have to do DMX.

[scubado]

^{You could go with two 27 channel dmx controllers from Holidaycoro and an Entec Pro or equivalent dongle.  Probably about the same price as two LOR controllers, but adding more channels later will be cheaper since you already then have the dongle.  DMX is cheaper, but LOR is easier to use.  Also the LOR controllers can a lot more current which is a consideration when using high powered leds.}

^{The Entec Pro dongle is a little pricey because it has it's own processor that takes some of the work off the main CPU.  You'll have much less timing issues verses a regular RS485 dongle.  I have the DMX Fusion Pro dongle from Holiday Technologies if they are still around.  It was a little cheaper than the Entec.}

[Ken Benedict]

^{You could go with two 27 channel dmx controllers from Holidaycoro and an Entec Pro or equivalent dongle.  Probably about the same price as two LOR controllers, but adding more channels later will be cheaper since you already then have the dongle.  DMX is cheaper, but LOR is easier to use.  Also the LOR controllers can a lot more current which is a consideration when using high powered leds.}

^{The Entec Pro dongle is a little pricey because it has it's own processor that takes some of the work off the main CPU.  You'll have much less timing issues verses a regular RS485 dongle.  I have the DMX Fusion Pro dongle from Holiday Technologies if they are still around.  It was a little cheaper than the Entec.}

 

Yes, Drew's Holiday Technologies is still around and I've been using one of his USB-DMX dongles without a single hiccup for several years.

 

Here's a related post on DMX controllers up 96 channels: http://forums.lightorama.com/index.php?/topic/25586-dmx-with-dumb-rgb-strips/?p=240108

 

And: http://forums.lightorama.com/index.php?/topic/27242-27-channel-dmx-board-question/

 

And: http://forums.lightorama.com/index.php?/topic/19936-diagram-for-5050-rgb-led-setup/?p=250967

 

The cheapest and one of the best USB-DMX dongles is the Dmxking.

It's $59 but was sold for $40 each earlier this year on Ebay.

I have several of these and they run great.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Ken Benedict

[musicman130]

I see holiday coro has their own Dongle that is USB and also has a processor in it like the ones that are 150, but it's only 50.  it has a an ethernet out which I like because I can put an ethernet jack on the outside of my house to make the run easier.  Not sure if that is how you connect it to their 27 channel controller or not though.  Also, if you have 1 27 channel controller, is it like a LOR network where you run a cable to the next controller and tell it to start at channel xx?  Reason i say this is a 27 channel would be perfect for the 9 lights that will be spotting the tombstones (27 channels) and then i could run a cable to the flood controller.  Just want to make sure I get as much info as I can before I start and spend money on this next year so that I know I get what I want to make it work.  here is a link to the dongle http://www.holidaycoro.com/Enttec-Pro-Compatible-DMX-Dongle-p/53.htm

Edited October 29, 2013 by musicman130

[sax]

This is my first year doing a display and it is a Halloween display.  I purchased 2 16 channel AC controlers from LOR for my AC needs.  For my yard lights  I jumped into RGB right away since I was starting from scratch.  I did lots of research and due to cost chose to go dumb rgb instead of pixels or smart rgb.

 

When I was designing this all out Light O Rama did not have the 24 channel DC controller that they have now and Holiday Coro did not have the tiny pix contollers yet either.  But, I decided to go with the 27 channel Easy DMX LED controllers for a couple of reasons with device limitations on a DMX universe being the primary decision maker.  So, I needed to add DMX to my LOR network.

 

I looked at various items that I could use to add DMX including San Devices, Lynx, Entec Pro and finally the Holiday Coro DMX dongle.  I chose the Holiday Coro Dongle since it emulated Entec Pro for a lot less and I don't need more than one universe....yet.

 

Now for my yard I am using 4 RGB string lights (about 500 bulbs), 9 floods, 6 RGB lighted pumpkins, 3 CCRs and 4 singing faces.  I planned to add pneumatic control for 2 groundbreakers and 1 witch stirring the pot (monster guts windshield wiper motor) but unfortunately ran out of cash for these additions.  I have also started to add a fog machine control relay.  These items will be for next year but to control these items I have the LOR 24 Chanel DC controller.  I expect this card to be much more robust and to be able to handle the heavier duty.   For the RGB lights and floods I have 2 of the 27 channel Easy DMX LED controllers and I am using the LOR 24 channel DC controller for some LED eyes in the bushes.  The singing faces are on the 2 16 channel LOR AC controllers and the CCRs have their own controllers.

 

I am having great success with this setup.  The DMX is working nicely and seamlessly with the LOR products.  Timing was spot on with the exception of the CCRs when I tried to use MACROs...the reason I went with LOR.  But they seem to be in time now.

 

I purchased the dumb RGB kit from Holiday Coro, the dongle, the DMX addressing SW and cabling and 3 of his flood kits that were in clearance.  I purchased all my other lights, power supplies, the 27 channel DMX controllers, cables and cable ends from Ray Wu.  I bought 1 extra Power Supply to use with the LOR 24 channel DC controller, 1 spare Power supply and 1 extra 27 channel DMX controller.  I am ready to expand.  I tried to get everything I needed in 1 shipment to save on shipping costs.  When I compared the cost of all these components to other places they just couldn't beat Ray's price.  Especially if you buy them all in one shipment.  And selecting DHL as the shipper I had all my items in 3 days.  Impressive

 

Now for the RGB spotlights, I purchased 2 of Ray's 10W, I purchased the ones from holiday Coro and when Light O Rama started selling theirs I picked up a couple of them.  I have to say that the 10w ones from Ray are the brightest.  But, for the holiday coro ones, I just didnt like the way they looked inside one of those Halogen Lamp cases from Home Depot.  They were just too big and stood out to much for my taste.  I ended up taking the light strips and screwing them to 1x3 boards that stick in the ground in front of my props.  I put 5 strips on a board, 5 more on another and use those 2 boards for a prop (I hot-glue landscaping staples to the board to stick it in the ground.)  So it isn't fair to compare this to the enclosed lights.  But I use them all.

 

Lastly, cases.  You will need something to put these items in.  I used Cableguard CG-1500 cases for all my DC components.  I purchased mine from DIY LED Express.  I picked up a 6 pack of these things. 

 

So my recommendation would be:

1.  use the holiday coro dongle...it limits you  to 1 universe only though.  http://www.holidaycoro.com/Enttec-Pro-Compatible-DMX-Dongle-p/53.htm

2.  use the 27 channel Easy DMX controller.  Holiday Coro does sell this.  But I bought mine (3 of them) from Ray Wu.  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Easy-DMX-LED-controller-dmx-decoder-driver/701799_378111925.html

3.  Get your lights wherever you wish.  Again, mine came from Ray Wu.  Pumpkins: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/promotion-5050-SMD-RGB-LED-module-0-96W-DC12V-20pcs-a-string/721644649.html  Trees/bushes:  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC12V-input-RGB-12mm-through-hole-LED-node-100pcs-a-string-in-all-black-color-wires/677300261.html  Spotlights: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/promotion-5050-SMD-RGB-LED-module-DC12V-input-waterproof-20pcs-a-string/423204013.html and http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC12V-input-10W-RGB-DMX-LED-flood-light-IP66-high-quality-with-15mm-3-core-waterproof/1089962952.html

4.  Get your power supply.  12vdc 360 watt supplies are what I am using.  Got mine from Ray but Holiday Coro sells them too.  Shipping from Ray is high but when I included it with my larger shipment it was actually a couple of dollars cheaper. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/350W-Dual-Output-Switching-Power-Supply-88-264VAC-input-12V-350W-output-CE-and-ROHS-approved/289599951.html

5.  Don't forget your cases.  I used DIY LED express for mine.  http://www.diyledexpress.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16&products_id=107

6.  Cables and wires.  You have to connect your lights to the boards somehow.  I used Ray again for this.  Holiday Coro sells the 4 pin cable ends and cables.  I actually made my own cables.  I regret  it.  Took too much time.  Ray sells extensions.  If I had to do it over I would of bought them made from him.  Anyway, dont forget to get cables.  (I used the 18 AWG for longer runs).  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4core-waterproof-connector-with-20cm-long-cable-male-and-female-black-color-the-male-connect-s/601827982.html  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/50m-lot-4pin-all-BLACK-18AWG-cable-for-led-pixel-module/836336399.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4pin-black-cable-20AWG-for-led-module-use-100m-a-roll/654705744.html

 

All this is running in my yard each night since 10/15/13.  No issues.

 

Hope this helps.  But this is just what I came up with.  Use this as one example in one yard.  It works for me but I am sure there are many more ways to do the exact same thing.  But you should have a good starting point now.

 

Good luck,

Sax

[sax]

A couple of answers to your questions.

The 27 channel controllers can daisy chain to other dmx devices including themselves.  Do not mix the Light O Rama network and DMX networks.  They are and must remain seperate.  So if you are going to have LOR and DMX in your display you must have a minimum of 2 network cables coming from your computer.

 

The 27 channel DMX contoller cards have sockets on them that allow you to connect the network cable to via a cat5 to XJR connector....but most of us solder a network cable to the 27 channel controller.  Google it and you will see a video on how it is done. It is just 2 wires soldered to empty pads on the board made for this connection.  I put 2 wires on each pad so I have an input and output jack.

 

The 27 channel controllers have dip switches on them to set the DMX starting channel.  It sets the first channel and the other 26 channels just follow suit.

 

Be aware that these boards can only handle 1A max per channel for a maximum of 15amps per board.  That is what makes the LOR 24 channel board so nice.  From the LOR store:  This card controls Direct Current (DC) loads. It has two 30 Amp DC inputs and can handle voltages up to 30VDC. Each channel is rated at 4 Amps. In the case the supply voltage is below 12 volts, an aux input is used to power the onboard electronics. 

 

Also, the floods that are now offered by LOR include the connectors and cable needed.  These floods will plug into the 27 channel DMX board as well.  They are much cheaper than the floods from Ray when you include shipping.  Although they are not as bright as the ones from Ray (they are pretty darn close) I have to be honest and say for floods they (The LOR floods) are my first choice.  They are cheaper and are plug and play.  I had to add the 4 pin cables to the one's from Ray.  And since they are in a closed and sealed unit they look way better in the yard than the ones I made with the strip lights.

 

Good-luck,

Sax

[musicman130]

Showed my parents the lights and such, since dad and I normally do the soldering and such if needed, and he asked what kind of cable you run between the controller and the lights.  I showed him the link above and it looks like it's 20 or 18 guage 4 end wire.  He asked if furnace wire or if we could just use ethernet wire and I told him I didn't know.  so, is it special wire or will either of those wires work to go from controller to the lights?

[TonyD]

This is my first year doing a display and it is a Halloween display.  I purchased 2 16 channel AC controlers from LOR for my AC needs.  For my yard lights  I jumped into RGB right away since I was starting from scratch.  I did lots of research and due to cost chose to go dumb rgb instead of pixels or smart rgb.

 

[snip]

 

Wow! Amazing post Sax. Going to copy and paste to a file called "everything I wanted to know.txt"!

[sax]

Thanks Tony.

I did lots of research before plunging in.  I love my RGB lights.  And now I am learning to Morph them with Superstar.  I always thought Superstar was for CCR only but it is making my yard work a breeze. 

I have a ways to go to create polished sequences but it has been a fun 13 months.

[sax]

Musicman,

The wires I chose were chosen to closely match the light string cables and allow me to place the lights in the yard.  Bigger wire for further distance.  I considered CAT5 but it just cannot carry the same current as 20AWG or 18AWG cable. 

 

There are several posts that go into detail on what size cables to use and why.  This really becomes critical once you start looking at pixels where the voltage drop is significant and cables will help you save a few milivolts.  If you want to have cables that are useable for future upgrades, and I am not saying that the 20AWG or 18AWG connectors will always work, then I would not use cat5 cable.

 

The cable for these connectors is an expense like roofing.  Not noticable until it isn't working right.  These are the extension cords for the RGB lights.  I have them in various sizes.  I made 10', 15', 25', 35' and 50' cables.  They are usable on all the lights and work just like extension cords.

 

As I said, it took a significant amount of time to make these.  8 solder joints per cable.  Heat shrinking and soldering.  Soldering and heat shrinking.  Ray sells extensions.  If i had to do it over again I would of bought 2 sets of his 25' extensions.  It would of cost a touch more but it would of saved a ton of time.

 

Holiday Coro has a blog that talks about Power Draw.  This shows the importance of cables:  http://blog.holidaycoro.com/2013/05/a-demonstration-of-effects-of-power.html

 

Some Furnace wire is larger than CAT5.  But I would stick with the bigger 20AWG or 18AWG wire.

[Ken Benedict]

For runs less than 30 feet: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023904&p_id=4043&seq=1&format=2

 

From 25-50 feet: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023903&p_id=4041&seq=1&format=2

 

From 40-70 feet: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023902&p_id=4039&seq=1&format=2

 

Over 60 feet: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2817&seq=1&format=2

 

Kinda depends on how much power your LEDs need, but generally will work for 95% of installations.

[jonnyci]

Sax - do you have any video or pictures of your setup?
Did you have to add power for any of your longer runs?  Was that easy to figure out and to do?

[musicman130]

I was watching the power draw video and I don't think I have to worry much about power issues.  On 1 27 channel controller I am going to have between 9 and 27 of the rectangle modules.  these will be to spot my tombstones.  I will use between 1 and 3 per spot.  I'll see how bright it is with 1, then try 2, then 3 if needed.  The other one will be for the floods which will use more modules.  I am looking at 5 modules per flood, so 16 or 20 total.  I am not sure if it matters on power draw per "channel" or total power used.  The video showed all of them connected together. 

[zvacman]

I am just wrapping up the last of my leds, cords, and controllers from my first year with LOR. I am hooked big time, I am already sketching out next years show. RGB's dumb and smart as well as pixels are going to make a huge appearance next year. I am seeing a huge price difference in strips and nodes ranging from double to five times as much from one to another. I have already purchased some rolls of the least expensive ones I could find for testing purposes. Is there a big difference in quality, brightness, etc from one to the next? As near as I can see, waterproofing the connections seems to be the most crucial element. My biggest challenge is going to be sequencing and setting up universes, I am really computer challenged. Would it be best for me to stick to all LOR controllers for ease of setup or doesn't it matter? At this point it looks like I'll be using 6 12 volt power supplies, do you guys leave them powered on all of the time or do you use timers? Will I run into any heat issues with them in the same box as the control boards? Lastly, (for now at least) if I make a LOR to DMX cat5 cable can I continue my daisy chain from the LOR controllers to the DMX controllers? Any help and guidance is as always, much appreciated.

Z