heystew Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Scott,The way I understand it Rob will be broadcasting the show over the commercial radio station, also some other interfaces between the show computer and their radio station's automation system.Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTechLights Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Has anyone used the USB to TCP/IP converters to "transport" the USB interface long distance? We are looking at building a show that would also be broadcast on our commerical radio station... I need the controlling computer here at the station due to needing good air audio feed and control of show, then I need to send the USB to the event location miles away.Thinking of the USB to TCP/IP, install dsl at event location, create a VPN and send the USB thru the VPN tunnel....Any thoughts?RobRob:I have seen USB extenders and transceivers run over private IP networks and control a number of different devices, I don't think you would have a problem with one of LOR's USB485 adapters except maybe some latency - which really depends on how many channels you have (multiple LOR networks might help too) and how great of a connection you have.I've been doing broadcast TV and Radio automation for almost 20 years. I don't know all of the specifics of your project since you gave limited details, but from what I know of the project. I would put the LOR Show Computer at the lighting event site, and send audio via a private network connection (for HD Radio you would be using no more than 300 Kbps bit rate, and the LOR audio files you have are probably only 128 Kbps anyway). You can bring any GPI interfaces over that same private network connection. Basically, treat it as you would for a live remote event (sports game, breaking news conference, etc). Any latency or delay issues can easily handled with a little testing through your automation system. For controlling the LOR Show Computer, you could use a number of remote desktop type apps such as LogMeIn, Team Viewer, PC Anywhere, etc. IMO. And if you wanted to get creative you could use LOR triggers to even fully automate the system between commercial breaks etc through your station's automation system.Feel free to email me at info@hitechlights.com if you'd like to discuss further. ---Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Thanks HiTech...The location of the lights is pretty much a parking light a mile down the road. My stations are staffed around the clock so if there is a problem with the "player" someone would be on-site. I also would tie GPI's from the automation to the LOR show computer to trigger the starts of the show....Right now I am running the LOR software on my computer at home (2.1 miles away) using http://www.usb-over-network.com/ over a Cicso 2 Ghz bridge. Thru two managed Cisco gig switches. Created a separate Vlan and it is working great!If there is a delay, it is milliseconds.So right now problem is solved... I will see if I can get it to screw up over the next week, but it looks like this is working… I want to be able to have this system "mobile" so that we could do all sorts of different events... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTechLights Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 How many LOR and RGB channels are you running? Like I said, this should work and you are prooving that it does. You are using 2 computers with the USBoverNetwork solution. For less than a $200 you could use a USB Device Server and cut out alot of variables if there's issues in the future when troubleshooting. Also, you could use a Serial Device Server for that GPI control as well. What radio automation software are you using at the station? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 How many LOR and RGB channels are you running? Like I said, this should work and you are prooving that it does. You are using 2 computers with the USBoverNetwork solution. For less than a $200 you could use a USB Device Server and cut out alot of variables if there's issues in the future when troubleshooting. Also, you could use a Serial Device Server for that GPI control as well. What radio automation software are you using at the station?As I am sitting here testing im also thinking, humm I am only running 16 channels right now on this test, what is going to happen with I do 148 channels? Yes I am using two CPU's... We use WideOrbit(ex. Google).. I like both your other ideas too... I think I'm at the point I can prove to myself we can do this.. Now to the real phase, SALES,Have them go sell it! Then back to purchasing... Ha! I will keep all updated as to the solution...Thanks all for the input, always looking for more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOR Staff Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 If at any point you get a real network involved (like this USB over ethernet), you might as well go directly to E1.31 and skip all the intermediate stuff. The only thing you would need is a Ethernet to DMX bridge. LOR Controllers will work with DMX, and it certainly would bypass a LOT of patched-together equipment (something a commercial station probably doesn't want). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTechLights Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Rob, I think you should look at DevMike's solution as well. E1.31 just became available within LOR a few months ago. It certainly would help when dealing with large LOR channel networks. As far as WO Automation for Radio - you've got the best automation software in the industry already, so you should have absolutely no proboblems with any fine tunings with it or any on-air playback equipment it automates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystew Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 As I am sitting here testing im also thinking, humm I am only running 16 channels right now on this test, what is going to happen with I do 148 channels?Yes I am using two CPU's... We use WideOrbit(ex. Google).. I like both your other ideas too... I think I'm at the point I can prove to myself we can do this.. Now to the real phase, SALES,Have them go sell it! Then back to purchasing... Ha! I will keep all updated as to the solution...Thanks all for the input, always looking for more...Rob,Even without the hardware present, you could program the additional channels and see if the performance of the 1 controller you do have is affected. Just add the extra channels in the Sequence Editor and the commands will be sent over the RS485.Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Rob,Even without the hardware present, you could program the additional channels and see if the performance of the 1 controller you do have is affected. Just add the extra channels in the Sequence Editor and the commands will be sent over the RS485.DaveThanks Dave! Did not know that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Rob,Even without the hardware present, you could program the additional channels and see if the performance of the 1 controller you do have is affected. Just add the extra channels in the Sequence Editor and the commands will be sent over the RS485.DaveDoes the "Shimmer" effect send the most commands inteh RS485 for a channel? I guess what I am trying to say if I shimmer each addl track will that use the most traffic on the RS485 or does the unit send one shimmer command and then the controller does the shimmering effect? Trying to figure out best command to put on 120 tracks to load up rs485.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystew Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Rob,I think rapid on/off's of each channel (.05 second timing) would be the best. I believe the shimmer command is like a macro command to the controller so it may not send very much data at all.I think fades are the same way as shimmer in that even though it's a complex command, it tells the controller to fade and the controller implements the ramp, rather than a large number of commands being sent.dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrant Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 There are USB to Fiber Optic modems which you might want to consider as they are probably very efficient although I've never used them. It would mean laying a fiber line the distance though and its susceptible to damage for obvious reasons. Now if you ran it through pvc, it would be more protected but that's a lot of money for pvc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viennaxmas Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I have actually used USB-over-Ethernet software quite a bit, even to the point of connecting a software dongle via VPN (had forgotten the dongle in my PC at home...) This worked pretty well. Regarding the latency - this will be pretty minimal. You also have to consider your STL - which may also introduce some latency, most likely enough to compensate for the network delay of the USB signal. A lot of broadcasters are using some sort of remote control (be it serial over network or other means) to control equipment at the transmitter or to switch satellite channel. What will be much more interesting is how to compensate for the 10 - 18 seconds delay your HD Radio Exciter introduces. However since it is a fixed time, you can just add "silence" to the show.One additional option coming to my mind would be a sub-audible tone decoder (or a DTMF decoder). You could program the tone in Wide Orbit and use it to start the show on a computer at your other location, provided you have a light-o-rama board with input capability. Still sounds like a cool idea, broadcasting the entire show from a full blown 50 KW station - much better than the 10 mw we can do... Unfortunately HD Radio is cost prohibitive for a private Christmas show, I would love to make use of the data capability... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTechLights Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Interesting point about DTMF decoder ViennaXmas... the company CircuitWerkes at BroadcastBoxes.com comes to mind. Definately doable as well!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 Our HD adds about 11.5 seconds delay that we will just add to beginning of show. No time this year but yes I would like to embed the rs485 into hd data channel. Then the same show could be done in different towns all synced! How cold would that be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) How cold would that be.I dont know, how cold does it get in your neck of the woods? Edited September 23, 2012 by Max-Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazydave Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Is there anyway to piggy back the LOR signal onto the FM signal , and then convert back from FM to LOR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viennaxmas Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Is there anyway to piggy back the LOR signal onto the FM signal , and then convert back from FM to LOR?Good point - not sure if it would help, since the FM Signal does get created at the transmitter, not the studio. Only way would be to piggyback on the STL, most systems do support an additional serial port. Even if it would be possible, the bandwidth on an FM signal is pretty limited. There are data services around FM (like RBDS) however they are in the bit per second area. Also RBDS is a fairly fixed standard (and pretty slow, from the time you send an RBDS command to the time it shows up on the radio screen, there can be a delay of up to 30 seconds). HD Radio is fully digital on the side bands, and technically would allow for streamed data, however the current implementation would not allow for serially transmitted data - and again, the bandwidth would be an issue. Most HD Radio stations using IBOC (In band On Channel) are operating at 96 kbit/s for all three streams... Also most of the gear around HD would not support something like this. Last idea would be to multiplex the signal into the FM stream which would result in a loss of quality. It would also pose an issue since the LOR protocol is bi-directional :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryM Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) It would also pose an issue since the LOR protocol is bi-directional :-)It is? Isn't the command flow from computer out to controller, and thats it? Not aware there is any response back from the controller when a command is received, missed, etc.Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point re bi-directional.I realize RS-485 can be operated full-duplex, but not aware there is any bi-directionality in a LOR network. Edited September 27, 2012 by GaryM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I know that the controller can post the status of it's inputs. And When using the HWU the utility looks for controllers and controllers id themselves to the software. But does the show require communication from a controller? I cant say for sure. Will this cause the show to hick-up or will a floating non signal cause the show to think that a input was triggered and if not programmed will it cause a hick-up? Cant say I have had a controller go dark during a show. So, I really do not know what would happen during a show. But I do know that the HWU will not see the controller without a response when polled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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