Watch out for Greatleds

[plasmadrive]

Orville wrote:

plasmadrive wrote:

Orville wrote:

Well if these are the ones you bought - click link below for details on them:

http://www.greatleds.com/en/product-xx.asp?id=46

These should very well work with LOR DC Controllers, even though I don't own any of them, I thought about purchasing some because I have seen videos around that have used them with LOR DC controllers.

These are 5v pixels, again see link above for technical info from the website.

DC controller????

YES, DC CONTROLLER: http://store.lightorama.com/cmdedcca2.html

Or the LOR CCR Controller. Sorry couldn't find a link to the CCR Controller, but I think LOR does sell this as a seperate entity.

aaaahhh..... mayb the CCR but pretty sure not the DC controller..

[plasmadrive]

edvas69 wrote:

I think the lesson here is when buying any RGB lights you should buy from people who have been tried and tested with known compatible products.

Ive seen many times where people have gone their own route trying to save a few dollars with an unknown source with different products only to get stung. If your new to the pixel world then you should follow the path of those that have walked before you because I can tell you many of them have learnt by trial and error by getting samples and understanding the specifiactions of IC chips and then have shared that knowledge to others.

There is no shortage of tried and tested solutions that can fit anyones budget and system design. So i see no reason for people taking great risk with products and vendors that just dont cut it.

As for the OP, I have not heard of any 6803 pixels that require a different method of communication because if it was following the 6803IC spec sheet then it should be compatable, and thus my interest in the link or information regarding these pixels.

Over the years i have seen many attempts of people venting personal greifs about vendors through the forums without any substance or fact and this is unfair to the vendor if there is nothing to back up the claims because in reality all we have to go on is the word of the poster and nothing else.

First off, you have no idea why I went to the vendor or tried those pixels. So your "lesson" is way off base and a bit judgmental.

Second, I explained what we found having to do with the PWM being internal or external. I never said the product was trash. I deliberately avoided talking at length about the product. I said it would not work with the standard 6803 controllers we all use.

Next, I have no desire to get the world's opinion as to whether or not I tried to drive them right. I am plenty confident I know what I am doing and have done many trials with many like products and this is the only one I had any issue with. Never was the point of my OP and I tried to avoid it, obviously without success.

As I have said all alone, I was warning of business practices and my experience with them. Nothing more. I tried to stay away from part numbers because there are others that use that same part number and they may or may not be the same product.. I don't know.... and I was purposefully avoiding pointing at a product... everyone just wouldn't leave it alone... You never saw me come on here flying off at the handle about anything.. I simply said they would not make good on the problem. That is all. It is unbelievable to me how convoluted this got... there were no lines to read between.. it was simple.. I expressed my experience and warned other to "Watch out for Greatleds". I am plenty good at grinding axes and if that would have been my intention, you all would have known. I am not so subtle when it comes to that.

Alright.. I think has been beat to death... I am off the thread.. you'll feel free to continue if you must.

[Donny M. Carter]

Pixels from a LOR DC controller? Now that's funny!

[edvas69]

plasmadrive wrote:
First off, you have no idea why I went to the vendor or tried those pixels. So your "lesson" is way off base and a bit judgmental.




Remember your the one who created the post about incompatable pixels and being ripped off without giving much more info then that. Im mearly responding so other will learn and not make the same mistake you seemed to have made with wasting a lot of money.

So really im just reconfirming what you have been saying all along.

Obviously you dont want help or assiatnce you just want to rant and thats fine but use something to back up your claim. I wont waste my time trying to give any more input or trying to find out what the issue so you may be able to salvage your situation with your pixels or so others may learn from your bad experience. You have made it clear you dont want help so that is your choice.

[edvas69]

Orville wrote:

edvas69 wrote:

These will not work with a DC controller as they show an IC in the picture unless the picture is incorrect

yes they have an IC, but why would that make them not work with a DC Controller since that is what GreatLeds sells to use with these, a controller that outputs DC voltage and is wired with the 4 wire method.

So I don't understand why these wouldn't work with a DC controller as long as all the commons are tied together and the the other inputs for each color are on their own channels.

Like said, I don't have any, but had been thinking about it and figured this should be something easy to set up, but because it has an IC in line, would make things more complicated, since I haven't gotten into this mess as yet, I'm just trying to search out the site and what they offer.   But I'm certain I've seen these used with LOR DC Controllers in some videos I've seen, or those videos were stating incorrect information and not telling everything really needed or required to use these things.

The fact that they have an IC tells me that they need some form of communication protocol from the controller to the pixel IC, now with a DC controller you do not have the data. So i cant see how these would possibly ever work with a DC controller, it just doesnt fit within the deisgn of using an IC for control.
It doesnt seem like they mention what IC is used so I would avoid these because there is no reason to take the risk as what the OP had taken

[Guest wbottomley]

Orville wrote:

yes they have an IC, but why would that make them not work with a DC Controller since that is what GreatLeds sells to use with these, a controller that outputs DC voltage and is wired with the 4 wire method.

So I don't understand why these wouldn't work with a DC controller as long as all the commons are tied together and the the other inputs for each color are on their own channels.

Like said, I don't have any, but had been thinking about it and figured this should be something easy to set up, but because it has an IC in line, would make things more complicated, since I haven't gotten into this mess as yet, I'm just trying to search out the site and what they offer.   But I'm certain I've seen these used with LOR DC Controllers in some videos I've seen, or those videos were stating incorrect information and not telling everything really needed or required to use these things.

Question... where would you connect the clock and data wires?

[Donny M. Carter]

wbottomley wrote:

Orville wrote:

yes they have an IC, but why would that make them not work with a DC Controller since that is what GreatLeds sells to use with these, a controller that outputs DC voltage and is wired with the 4 wire method.

So I don't understand why these wouldn't work with a DC controller as long as all the commons are tied together and the the other inputs for each color are on their own channels.

Like said, I don't have any, but had been thinking about it and figured this should be something easy to set up, but because it has an IC in line, would make things more complicated, since I haven't gotten into this mess as yet, I'm just trying to search out the site and what they offer.   But I'm certain I've seen these used with LOR DC Controllers in some videos I've seen, or those videos were stating incorrect information and not telling everything really needed or required to use these things.

Question... where would you connect the clock and data wires?

Connect them to the + on the power supply.

[Al in Raleigh]

I have heard of flicker in LEDs but not experienced any. I pulled the LPD6803 datasheet and didn't see anything conclusive. However, I do know about PWM and voltage drop. So, I just now searched and found a thread on Ardunio Forum about LPD6803 and flicker possibly confirming (not actually but I like to think it did) my suspicions that voltage drop from current slugs could be the problem. Here is the link.

I'll bet either one or more of theses occurred:
1) Too many nodes were connected between voltage re-injection points.
2) The powersupply could not handle the current slugs
3) A capacitor of significant size at strategic points might have stopped the flicker.
4) Upping the wire gauge would have solved part of this
5) A ground bounce condition was occurring.

Dude, this is the wrong forum for this stuff.

[plasmadrive]

Al in Raleigh wrote:

I have heard of flicker in LEDs but not experienced any. I pulled the LPD6803 datasheet and didn't see anything conclusive. However, I do know about PWM and voltage drop. So, I just now searched and found a thread on Ardunio Forum about LPD6803 and flicker possibly confirming (not actually but I like to think it did) my suspicions that voltage drop from current slugs could be the problem. Here is the link.

I'll bet either one or more of theses occurred:
1) Too many nodes were connected between voltage re-injection points.
2) The powersupply could not handle the current slugs
3) A capacitor of significant size at strategic points might have stopped the flicker.
4) Upping the wire gauge would have solved part of this
5) A ground bounce condition was occurring.

Dude, this is the wrong forum for this stuff.

Well crud.. I forgot to turn off the "watched" thingy.. So since you took the time to actually research.. I will add more.

Al, None of the above were the cause of the flicker. Didn't matter if it was one pixel are the entire string. Laboratory supply used with plenty of power. Factory wires.

Keep in mind, as I have been saying all along... they work on the weird controller that the company sold me, but not on standards ones we use. That ruled out defective wiring and a host of other things. From a standard controller we could address, control and dim every pixel correctly except for the constant flicker below 100%.

[plasmadrive]

wbottomley wrote:

Orville wrote:

yes they have an IC, but why would that make them not work with a DC Controller since that is what GreatLeds sells to use with these, a controller that outputs DC voltage and is wired with the 4 wire method.

So I don't understand why these wouldn't work with a DC controller as long as all the commons are tied together and the the other inputs for each color are on their own channels.

Like said, I don't have any, but had been thinking about it and figured this should be something easy to set up, but because it has an IC in line, would make things more complicated, since I haven't gotten into this mess as yet, I'm just trying to search out the site and what they offer. But I'm certain I've seen these used with LOR DC Controllers in some videos I've seen, or those videos were stating incorrect information and not telling everything really needed or required to use these things.

Question... where would you connect the clock and data wires?

Orville,

the controller outputs a clock and data signal that is reference to the power supply common. That is why there is only a single wire for each.

there are pixels that the DC controllers will control but it would be the color of the entire string at once.

[plasmadrive]

edvas69 wrote:

plasmadrive wrote:
First off, you have no idea why I went to the vendor or tried those pixels. So your "lesson" is way off base and a bit judgmental.

Remember your the one who created the post about incompatable pixels and being ripped off without giving much more info then that. Im mearly responding so other will learn and not make the same mistake you seemed to have made with wasting a lot of money. So really im just reconfirming what you have been saying all along. Obviously you dont want help or assiatnce you just want to rant and thats fine but use something to back up your claim. I wont waste my time trying to give any more input or trying to find out what the issue so you may be able to salvage your situation with your pixels or so others may learn from your bad experience. You have made it clear you dont want help so that is your choice.

Since I am here again after forgetting to turn off the "watched topic" thing.. I will chime in one more time.

You are NOT confirming what I have been saying at all. I never once said I was "ripped off". How do you read such stuff into things? There were no sentences hidden in-between the lines for you to read.. so I can only conclude you made them up on your mind. Go back and read what I actually wrote. I never said ripped off... I never asked for help to try to fix the situation. I didn't want to salvage anything. I was not trying to make this a lesson for everyone to learn from. I was merely explaining that you need to watch out for Greatleds. I said they would not make good on a problem with their product. Not much of a rant huh?

I am not afraid to ask for help when I need it or I am unsure about something. I was very clear (many times) that this was not about the product itself... but rather how the company dealt with it not working right. Those that said otherwise made it up or drew conclusions on their own. ie... "being ripped off"

I just hate it when people put words in my mouth... I am full of it enough without more being stuffed in there.. of this I am certain..

[edvas69]

plasmadrive wrote:

edvas69 wrote:

plasmadrive wrote:
First off, you have no idea why I went to the vendor or tried those pixels. So your "lesson" is way off base and a bit judgmental.

Remember your the one who created the post about incompatable pixels and being ripped off without giving much more info then that. Im mearly responding so other will learn and not make the same mistake you seemed to have made with wasting a lot of money. So really im just reconfirming what you have been saying all along. Obviously you dont want help or assiatnce you just want to rant and thats fine but use something to back up your claim. I wont waste my time trying to give any more input or trying to find out what the issue so you may be able to salvage your situation with your pixels or so others may learn from your bad experience. You have made it clear you dont want help so that is your choice.

Since I am here again after forgetting to turn off the "watched topic" thing.. I will chime in one more time.

You are NOT confirming what I have been saying at all.  I never once said I was "ripped off".  How do you read such stuff into things?  There were no sentences hidden in-between the lines for you to read.. so I can only conclude you made them up on your mind.    Go back and read what I actually wrote.   I never said ripped off... I never asked for help to try to fix the situation.  I didn't want to salvage anything.  I was not trying to make this a lesson for everyone to learn from.  I was merely explaining that you need to watch out for Greatleds.  I said they would not make good on a problem with their product.   Not much of a rant huh?

I am not afraid to ask for help when I need it or I am unsure about something.  I was very clear (many times) that this was not about the product itself... but rather how the company dealt with it not working right.  Those that said otherwise made it up or drew conclusions on their own.  ie... "being ripped off"

I just hate it when people put words in my mouth... I am full of it enough without more being stuffed in there.. of this I am certain..

I would conclude that if you bought a product that didnt live up to expectations and the vendor didnt assist or was not above board on their product then that would be termed as being ripped off in my language, if you didnt feel ripped off, then you would have not created the thread in the first place warning people of GreatLEDs

The constant act of defensiveness and reluctance to get other opinions tells me there is more to the story than what appears to be told.

[Guest guest]

Orville wrote:

Just because you have an engineer working with you, and you have been in the industry for a long duration still doesn't make it crystal clear as to what the problem is with these pixel strings you're complaining about.

I've been involved in electronic prototyping engineering labs, worked with electronic and electrical engineers and they *do* make mistakes, I've caught many in my time when I was just an electro-mechanical assembler on the production floor that had to be redone and reworked because of an engineering mistake/error that didn't get caught during the initial phase of prototype tests and assembly.

Did any of the mistakes you found involve wiring smart pixels to a LOR DC controller?...

[Guest guest]

DonFL wrote:

Orville wrote:

Just because you have an engineer working with you, and you have been in the industry for a long duration still doesn't make it crystal clear as to what the problem is with these pixel strings you're complaining about.

I've been involved in electronic prototyping engineering labs, worked with electronic and electrical engineers and they *do* make mistakes, I've caught many in my time when I was just an electro-mechanical assembler on the production floor that had to be redone and reworked because of an engineering mistake/error that didn't get caught during the initial phase of prototype tests and assembly.

Did any of the mistakes you found involve wiring smart pixels to a LOR DC controller?...

Of course not Don. :shock:

These things didn't even exist when I worked in the electronics field, if they did, I'd have a lot of them now. That's the one advantage I miss now being retired from that field, used to get a lot of neat stuff that was going to be tossed out to the trash bin. And no, I never took anything without permission, and a permission slip from the company stating I could have it, as security had to verify anything coming in or going out of the company via an individual. No slip and you were in BIG trouble! Actually, even the vendors had to go through the scrutiny of a triple security check before they were allowed inside to make any deliveries.

Would have been nice if these type RGB LED's would have been around when I was working in electronics, unfortunately for me these type LED's came about after I retired from that avenue.

[Guest guest]

Donny M. Carter wrote:

Pixels from a LOR DC controller? Now that's funny!

My Bad Donny. I figured the LED's are a DC item and they would work with a DC Controller. I guess not. Like stated, I was just trying to find the website and the products GreatLeds sold so others could look at the products and determine if there were a problem.

[Guest guest]

plasmadrive wrote:

After spending hundreds of dollars on samples as well as hours and hours of time by us, the company Greatleds will not make good on them.

Plasma, not to rehash this, and just in case you're still reading this thread, I think this statement is the issue that stirred the pot.

I think if you would have stated this a little differently, then maybe this entire thread would have taken a different direction. Try to remember, everyone interprets statements like this differently.

I think if it would have been stated in a manner something like this, "Beware of Greatleds, they don't offer refunds or replacement{s} on their product line if they don't happen to meet your needs or requirments. And they may not work properly with your pixel controllers. Buy from them at your own risk!"

Then maybe all this hoopla may not have happened.

Just anothers observational interpretation of how your statement didn't quite come across as you had intended to state in your original post.

[rescue_653]

Orville wrote:

DonFL wrote:

Orville wrote:

Just because you have an engineer working with you, and you have been in the industry for a long duration still doesn't make it crystal clear as to what the problem is with these pixel strings you're complaining about.  

 I've been involved in electronic prototyping engineering labs, worked with electronic and electrical engineers and they *do* make mistakes, I've caught many in my time when I was just an electro-mechanical assembler on the production floor that had to be redone and reworked because of an engineering mistake/error that didn't get caught during the initial phase of prototype tests and assembly. 

Did any of the mistakes you found involve wiring smart pixels to a LOR DC controller?...

Of course not Don. :shock: 

These things didn't even exist when I worked in the electronics field, if they did, I'd have a lot of them now.  That's the one advantage I miss now being retired from that field, used to get a lot of neat stuff that was going to be tossed out to the trash bin.  And no, I never took anything without permission, and a permission slip from the company stating I could have it, as security had to verify anything coming in or going out of the company via an individual.  No slip and you were in BIG trouble!  Actually, even the vendors had to go through the scrutiny of a triple security check before they were allowed inside to make any deliveries.

Would have been nice if these type RGB LED's would have been around when I was working in electronics, unfortunately for me these type LED's came about after I retired from that avenue.

Orv.........
Exactly how many jobs / careers have you had? It seems you have job experience in many different fields :shock:

[Guest guest]

rescue_653 wrote:

Orv.........
Exactly how many jobs / careers have you had? It seems you have job experience in many different fields :shock:

Quite a vast line. Started in Fast Foods at age 16, then on to Data Entry, Theme Park, Telemarketing {Yuck! DEFINITELTY HATED THIS ONE!}, then onto Electronics/Warehouse/QC/Test-Tech and Prototype Labs {although not in that specific order}. After all that, I started working via Temp services after I got laid off and ended up working the same list in the Electronics line at a wide assortment of companies. I also volunteered on my off time doing traffic control trained by O.P.D. in my area. Also worked when needed from time to time with a fellow that I became close friends with through my old B.B.S. system, working with him was definitely interesting and would be quite gory for many, he {and I} picked up the cadavers from accident and other crime scenes once local authorities were done with them.

So yep, I've been around the block quite a few times over my present lifetime.:shock:

I also learned electrical work from my late grandfather and late father who were both electricians {grandfather owned his own electrical contracting company}, father moved into electronics in 1956, the year I was born and I did learn soldering skills and how to build D.I.Y. kits from my dad from the time I was 7 years old.

Of course now having no real depth perception and being blind in one eye, those electronics days are now long gone. And a few other medical problems and past injuries that have resurfaced have basically put me out of the workforce for any real full time jobs I used to be able to do, but can't any longer.

You asked.

[WilliamS]

Al in Raleigh wrote:

I have heard of flicker in LEDs but not experienced any. I pulled the LPD6803 datasheet and didn't see anything conclusive. However, I do know about PWM and voltage drop. So, I just now searched and found a thread on Ardunio Forum about LPD6803 and flicker possibly confirming (not actually but I like to think it did) my suspicions that voltage drop from current slugs could be the problem. Here is the link.

I'll bet either one or more of theses occurred:
1) Too many nodes were connected between voltage re-injection points.
2) The powersupply could not handle the current slugs
3) A capacitor of significant size at strategic points might have stopped the flicker.
4) Upping the wire gauge would have solved part of this
5) A ground bounce condition was occurring.

Dude, this is the wrong forum for this stuff.

There are cases of pixels that do not have a termination per say or if you over on the Aud boards there is a thread about refelction of data. Where most boards and IC's can stop that as were not over distances that a commercial site would use this might be as harmless as a small resistor.

[Guest guest]

Orville wrote:

You asked.

He'll know better next time.