1st Timer, Researching for Next Year

[Faluzure]

Hello all. I'm going to be a first timer doing this and I'm already planning for it next year. I like to do some research and already ready through dozens of threads over several hours, but there are a few questions that I'm still confused about. I'm preemptively apologizing for the length, but I've tried to do as much research as possible before asking.

1. At first I was going to ask about SPT wire. I've dealt with SPT-1 before when repairing my lamps, but they had exposed wire on one end and a molded connector on the other. Little did I realize that you could get SPT wire with no plugs on each end. So then I began to wonder where you buy plugs and I found my answer this morning after finding this page: http://www.johnsonschristmascorner.com/Cords.html VAMPIRE PLUGS! Looking at that page, it seems the end-to-end plugs are easy but how many of you use female vampire plugs in the middle of your wire? Seems like an easy way to provide an outlet in a pinch to add more lights or devices to your channel.

1a. SPT-1 or SPT-2? I'm leaning towards SPT-2 just due to the thicker insulation, additional UV deterioration protection due to the thicker insulation, & additional amps.


2. Controller "Package" from Light-O-Rama. http://www.lightorama.com/StarterPackages.html shows their starter packages but when you click on the link, it only shows the ShowTime Pro 16 Starter and additional add on controllers. I read another thread of someone who asked this same question and the answer they got was just to buy the 16 and then add controllers as you see fit. Is this right? "Package" always implies some kind of discount. So by buying each controller separate seems there would be no discount.

2a. Residential vs PRO. I read the difference on the chart shown here: http://www.lightorama.com/ShowtimePC.html , but what I want to know is what *YOU* guys have purchased and can recommend. I know home saves you tons of money but my concerns are the following:
* Showtime Pro is the only one that runs in "stand-alone". What does this mean? Does this mean that if somehow your PC reboots, the lights won't work?
* How many Showtime Residential Controllers can you daisy chain vs the Pro?
* Both the Residential & Pro packages allows you to upgrade and add the "ShowTime MP3 Director" for $225 that comes installed inside of an outdoor PVC encloser. Of course I don't want to do this now, but maybe down the road. If I want the same thing a few years from now, which would would I get?
Director Card w/ MP3 Player (DC-MP3): http://store.lightorama.com/dicawimp3pl.html
ShowTime MP3 Director (DC-MP3-SHOWTIME): http://store.lightorama.com/inmp3di.html
Where is the enclosure for it that's included if I buy it w/ the starter package?
* What's the difference between the PRO Series LOR1600WG3 and the PRO Series LOR1602WG3 controllers? The descriptions are exactly the same with the exception of the price tag.
LOR1600WG3 - http://store.lightorama.com/lor1600w.html
LOR1602WG3 - http://store.lightorama.com/locolico.html


3. Snubbers. I know what it does. I think I understand that if you have LEDs (halfwave & fullwave) that have flickering issues with the LOR controller, then you use a snubber to fix it. Can you buy them preassembled like you can the vampire plugs or is it a DIY thing? Mind you I don't want to use things like a nightlight, Glade Plug-In, or anything like that. I want the real deal and if I have to make them, I'll buy the pieces.

3a. Where exactly do you plug these in at? I assume you have the controller with a female plug, you connect your SPT extensions wire to the location where you want your lights, then you start connecting your string of lights (daisy chained). Where does the snubber go? Closer or farther from the controller? I would assume I would need to use a female vampire plug to add another outlet in the event it needs to go closest to the controller.


4. Halfwave/Fullwave LEDs. I have invested in a nice stockpile of LED lights from past "day after Christmas" sales that are halfwave. I know I'll have to buy some more in the future, but you really can't beat those 50% - 75% off LED lights that make them come out to around $5 or less a string. I know many of you use Paul for your LED lighting but even in bulk, they come out to $15 - $20 per string, depending on which color/type you choose. Can you guys really justify buying the fullwaves at that price? I know I do eventually want to replace them all, but it's either do my lightshow next year or wait a few years to invest in fullwave LEDs.

4a. Is there a list of other retailers you can list other than Paul's Creative Displays?

4b. Does Paul do post-Christmas sales?

4c. Is there a brand that the brick & mortar stores sell that are indeed fullwave? From Target, to Walmart, to Costco, the LED lights I've seen are generic (as in some name I've never heard of). The only time I've seen a brand name on LED lights are at Lowes and some Target, which are the GE brand. However, there's different kinds of GE LEDs which are all more expensive than the generic ones. Was wondering if with this price increase, they are indeed fullwave.

Thank you all for your time!

[bearcat]

spt-1 is good enough for most aplications. does not hurt to get spt-2 wire but the plug ends must match(vampire for spt-1 or vampire for spt-2). I think with the package you save on the software. with the pro controller you can download a simple show and it will play without the need for computer or director card, you can also change the card ID with a small screw driver vs computer conection with the residential unit. 1600 vs 1602 just means total amp load is 15 vs 30 if the 1602 is plug into 2 diferent circuits. I don't think with the new controllers you need to worry about snubbers. My display is working great with big box store leds, not sure how many years they will last but hopefully 3-4 years. This is my first year 48 channels & 6,000 lights
RSR

[KStatefan]

1. I use SPT-3 which the suplier says is SPT-1 with UV protection and plugs. Makes it very easy for custom cords.

2. I only have one controller. I started with a kit and soldered it together myself. When i add more controllers they will be the PC series.

LOR1600WG3 15 amp controller
LOR1600WG3 30 amp controller

LOR1600xG3 Users guide

3. Snubbers are built in in the G3 controllers. A snubber will not make half wave lights look different.

4. I have full wave LEDs

4. There are presales that are starting now. There are threads on three of them in the Coffee Shop Forum.

[Faluzure]

KStatefan wrote:

1.  I use SPT-3 which the suplier says is SPT-1 with UV protection and plugs.  Makes it very easy for custom cords.

Nice, thanks I'll look into that.

2. I only have one controller.  I started with a kit and soldered it together myself. When i add more controllers they will be the PC series.

LOR1600WG3 15 amp controller
LOR1600WG3 30 amp controller

LOR1600xG3 Users guide

Thanks for the clarification. Can you mix & match from the PRO & the PC (Residential)? Are there any caveats to this? I'm wondering if others have done this (yet).

3. Snubbers are built in in the G3 controllers.  A snubber will not make half wave lights look different.

That's good to know. Thanks for the G3 manual link as well. I read it and it does indicate smoother LED "fading". I know that snubbers don't make the halfwaves look better, but they fix the fading, which is what I was questioning. So there is no reason for me to purchase/make any kind of snubbers at all?

4. I have full wave LEDs

Any ideas of where to buy?

4. There are presales that are starting now.  There are threads on three of them in the Coffee Shop Forum.

Thanks for that.

[Surfing4Dough]

Faluzure wrote:

Hello all. I'm going to be a first timer doing this and I'm already planning for it next year. I like to do some research and already ready through dozens of threads over several hours, but there are a few questions that I'm still confused about. I'm preemptively apologizing for the length, but I've tried to do as much research as possible before asking.
Welcome to the fun and madness!

1. At first I was going to ask about SPT wire. I've dealt with SPT-1 before when repairing my lamps, but they had exposed wire on one end and a molded connector on the other. Little did I realize that you could get SPT wire with no plugs on each end. So then I began to wonder where you buy plugs and I found my answer this morning after finding this page: http://www.johnsonschristmascorner.com/Cords.html VAMPIRE PLUGS! Looking at that page, it seems the end-to-end plugs are easy but how many of you use female vampire plugs in the middle of your wire? Seems like an easy way to provide an outlet in a pinch to add more lights or devices to your channel.

1a. SPT-1 or SPT-2? I'm leaning towards SPT-2 just due to the thicker insulation, additional UV deterioration protection due to the thicker insulation, & additional amps.
Good source for all of the above:
http://www.christmaslightshow.com/Spt1-and-spt2-Wire-and-Spt1-and-spt2-Plugs.html

SPT2 doesn't have UV protection. SPT 3 does (sometimes). SPT1 & 2 both have the same wire gauge.
I use both SPT1 and 2--I get whatever I can seem to buy at the best deal at the time.

2. Controller "Package" from Light-O-Rama. http://www.lightorama.com/StarterPackages.html shows their starter packages but when you click on the link, it only shows the ShowTime Pro 16 Starter and additional add on controllers. I read another thread of someone who asked this same question and the answer they got was just to buy the 16 and then add controllers as you see fit. Is this right? "Package" always implies some kind of discount. So by buying each controller separate seems there would be no discount.

Get the PC controllers, and the starter package shown at the bottom of this page:
http://store.lightorama.com/diyproducts.html


2a. Residential vs PRO. I read the difference on the chart shown here: http://www.lightorama.com/ShowtimePC.html , but what I want to know is what *YOU* guys have purchased and can recommend. I know home saves you tons of money but my concerns are the following:
* Showtime Pro is the only one that runs in "stand-alone". What does this mean? Does this mean that if somehow your PC reboots, the lights won't work?
Stand-alone only means you can run short non-musical sequences on it without use of a computer or a director. Since most of sequence to music, this is a non-issue.

* How many Showtime Residential Controllers (most commonly AKA "PC controllers) can you daisy chain vs the Pro? same for both--240 controllers.

* Both the Residential & Pro packages allows you to upgrade and add the "ShowTime MP3 Director" for $225 that comes installed inside of an outdoor PVC encloser. Of course I don't want to do this now, but maybe down the road. If I want the same thing a few years from now, which would would I get?
Director Card w/ MP3 Player (DC-MP3): http://store.lightorama.com/dicawimp3pl.html
ShowTime MP3 Director (DC-MP3-SHOWTIME): http://store.lightorama.com/inmp3di.html

Consider the mini-director http://store.lightorama.com/midiwimp3pl.html
Much cheaper, does the same thing, just doesn't have the built in clock. Use a digital timer for $20 from Home Depot to do the accomplish the same thing. Personally, I like my director to be in the garage away from my controllers out in the yard in case I have to swap my SD card during the show. That way I don't have to go out into the show or the weather/snow and open the controller box just to swap the SD card. I love the mini-director approach--a lot easier than dedicating a computer to the show and running cat5 from the computer outside to the show.



3. Snubbers. I know what it does. I think I understand that if you have LEDs (halfwave & fullwave) that have flickering issues with the LOR controller, then you use a snubber to fix it. Can you buy them preassembled like you can the vampire plugs or is it a DIY thing? Mind you I don't want to use things like a nightlight, Glade Plug-In, or anything like that. I want the real deal and if I have to make them, I'll buy the pieces.
Typically only need snubber if connecting >3 LED strings together. Doesn't seem to do it with less than that, or with all brands of LEDs. The flicker is mainly noticed with slow fades.
Simple and cheap to make:




3a. Where exactly do you plug these in at? I assume you have the controller with a female plug, you connect your SPT extensions wire to the location where you want your lights, then you start connecting your string of lights (daisy chained). Where does the snubber go? Closer or farther from the controller? I would assume I would need to use a female vampire plug to add another outlet in the event it needs to go closest to the controller.

Anywhere on the channel. So any female end of a light string that is connected to that channel is an easy place to attach a snubber.

4. Halfwave/Fullwave LEDs. I have invested in a nice stockpile of LED lights from past "day after Christmas" sales that are halfwave. I know I'll have to buy some more in the future, but you really can't beat those 50% - 75% off LED lights that make them come out to around $5 or less a string. I know many of you use Paul for your LED lighting but even in bulk, they come out to $15 - $20 per string, depending on which color/type you choose. Can you guys really justify buying the fullwaves at that price? I know I do eventually want to replace them all, but it's either do my lightshow next year or wait a few years to invest in fullwave LEDs.

I use probably about 150-175 strings of Walmart half-wave strings without any difficulty. No regrets on my part. Many were after Christmas buys.

[Surfing4Dough]

Faluzure wrote:

Thanks for the clarification. Can you mix & match from the PRO & the PC (Residential)? Are there any caveats to this? I'm wondering if others have done this (yet).

Yes, all LOR products can mix and match with each other, but why buy PRO in the first place?

[Faluzure]

Surfing4Dough wrote:

Faluzure wrote:

Thanks for the clarification. Can you mix & match from the PRO & the PC (Residential)? Are there any caveats to this? I'm wondering if others have done this (yet).

Yes, all LOR products can mix and match with each other, but why buy PRO in the first place?   

Dunno.... was just wondering if there was a reason to go PRO.

Thanks for all your help BTW. For your SPT wire, do you buy locally or online? If online, can you share your vendor? I was tempted to visit Border States Electric to see what they have. I've purchased CAT5 cable from them before for my work.

Lastly, I'm still debating on the lights. Thanks to KStatefan for the heads up on the presale threads. Looking at The Coffee Shop forum, there's one for CDI, HLE, and MITS. I've heard all mentioned once ore twice with CDI being the most popular. My problem with CDI is that you're required to buy in boxes of 12 lights per box. I simply can't afford that since I'm already dropping $$$ on the Light-o-rama setup. MITS & HLE is more feasible because you can buy single strings. Plus all the "regret threads" say start out small. I don't even know how I'm going to wire up my house (yet) for next year and I don't know what kind of lights I need. I don't want to buy more than I need...

I did finalize on using either M5/M6s for trim/hedges/bushes/misc and the C6s (maybe C7s) for bigger trees.

I'm still on the fence on whether I should go out & buy retail halfwave LEDs for $5 per string the day after Christmas or paying the "normal retail price" of $10 - $15 at vendors like HLE or MITS for fullwave. I know if I do fullwave, i need to act on these presales...

[Surfing4Dough]

Faluzure wrote:

Surfing4Dough wrote:

Faluzure wrote:

Thanks for the clarification. Can you mix & match from the PRO & the PC (Residential)? Are there any caveats to this? I'm wondering if others have done this (yet).

Yes, all LOR products can mix and match with each other, but why buy PRO in the first place?

Dunno.... was just wondering if there was a reason to go PRO.

Thanks for all your help BTW. For your SPT wire, do you buy locally or online? If online, can you share your vendor? I was tempted to visit Border States Electric to see what they have. I've purchased CAT5 cable from them before for my work.



.

No reason to go Pro in my mind (and most here). Go with more channels instead with the saved money. :cool:

Search SPT wire, or lamp cord, on these sites and elsewhere. Prices and items available change through the year. A few times per year they get stuff in that is usually well priced.

http://www.skycraftsurplus.com/lampcord.aspx

http://www.grandbrass.com
(I have found eco-paks --no spool-- cheap in the past)

http://www.christmaslightshow.com/Spt1-and-spt2-Wire-and-Spt1-and-spt2-Plugs.html
(Darryl, owner, is a member here)

http://www.1000bulbs.com/ (once found it here cheap, but never again)


Have gotten plugs here too:
http://www.landmarklightingkc.com/shop/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=40


For what it is worth, here is a great place to get cat5:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10208

[Faluzure]

Surfing4Dough: Thanks for all your help! I think I'm ready to go.

Still wondering about the lights though. I have probably 20 or so boxes of halfwave lights I got from past Christmas clearances and that's what I'm using now just for my home.

I have a budget of about $200 - $250 for lights I can buy for next year. Doesn't seem like much when you're looking to buy fullwave lights.

I figured I can use that money for house framing/borders and lights in trees. Then I can use my halfwaves for lights in other areas like over bushes, makeshift mini-trees, etc. Dunno though, I might go all out and just buy halfwaves.

I don't think I've ever seen a fullwave LED. Are they seriously that much better in appearance? I can see the flickering on my halfwaves and they don't bother me at all.

[Steven]

Surfing4Dough wrote:

but why buy PRO in the first place?

I have purchased exactly one PRO controller. The reason is that my sister-in-law wanted a mega tree in her front yard. She and my brother live on a 2-lane country road with no shoulder, so there is absolutely no way there was going to be musical sequences.

She was happy with the 16-channel LED mega tree last year. It wasn't up at Thanksgiving this year, but I'll see when I visit at Christmas.

[Surfing4Dough]

Faluzure wrote:

Surfing4Dough: Thanks for all your help! I think I'm ready to go.

Still wondering about the lights though. I have probably 20 or so boxes of halfwave lights I got from past Christmas clearances and that's what I'm using now just for my home.

I have a budget of about $200 - $250 for lights I can buy for next year. Doesn't seem like much when you're looking to buy fullwave lights.

I figured I can use that money for house framing/borders and lights in trees. Then I can use my halfwaves for lights in other areas like over bushes, makeshift mini-trees, etc. Dunno though, I might go all out and just buy halfwaves.

I don't think I've ever seen a fullwave LED. Are they seriously that much better in appearance? I can see the flickering on my halfwaves and they don't bother me at all.

Should clarify something. The flickering you are referring to may be different that flickering you see referenced with the talk of snubbers. The flickering I think you are talking about is the "buzzing" type of look that some people can see with half-wave lights (most noticeable if you shake them really fast). Most people can't see them, and I don't think that is an issue. Snubbers don't fix that. The flickering that snubbers help is that when controllers fade multiple sets of led strings, sometimes the fade isn't smooth and it gets kinda jumpy towards the end of the fade. G3 controllers MAY fix this. Snubbers do too.

[Faluzure]

Surfing4Dough wrote:

Faluzure wrote:

Surfing4Dough: Thanks for all your help! I think I'm ready to go.

Still wondering about the lights though. I have probably 20 or so boxes of halfwave lights I got from past Christmas clearances and that's what I'm using now just for my home.

I have a budget of about $200 - $250 for lights I can buy for next year. Doesn't seem like much when you're looking to buy fullwave lights.

I figured I can use that money for house framing/borders and lights in trees. Then I can use my halfwaves for lights in other areas like over bushes, makeshift mini-trees, etc. Dunno though, I might go all out and just buy halfwaves.

I don't think I've ever seen a fullwave LED. Are they seriously that much better in appearance? I can see the flickering on my halfwaves and they don't bother me at all.

Should clarify something.  The flickering you are referring to may be different that flickering you see referenced with the talk of snubbers.  The flickering I think you are talking about is the "buzzing" type of look that some people can see with half-wave lights (most noticeable if you shake them really fast).  Most people can't see them, and I don't think that is an issue.  Snubbers don't fix that.  The flickering that snubbers help is that when controllers fade multiple sets of led strings, sometimes the fade isn't smooth and it gets kinda jumpy towards the end of the fade.  G3 controllers MAY fix this.  Snubbers do too. 

Yeah, that's what I was talking about (flickering related to fade). I guess it's not really flickering, but the LEDs have a slight glow to them although they are supposed to be completely off.

I have read about how to convert halfwave to fullwave, but I'd rather not do this process because I have way too many halfwave LEDs already in my arsenal and it would be too much work with potential mishaps.

I think I'm just going to go the snubber route via the link you sent me just for a backup in the event the G3 controllers don't eliminate the fade problem. Besides, since I only need 1 per channel, I can make maybe 33 of them (or 40, if they come in packs of 10).

Thanks for the clarification though.