Denise Brunner Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 For the last week or so I have had channels hang up, have channels start shimmering, but all clears when the system resets in between songs.Questions:1: Is there any amplification in the data signal at the controllers???2: I have some cat 5 cords that are way to long, if I shorten them will it help reduce interference???Have checked wiring, high and data. Moved all cat 5 wires as far from power cords as possible. Have checked programs. Its not a controller that needs to be reset since it happens randomly.... Not sure where to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainron19 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Have you tried a reset on the affected controllers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfing4Dough Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Doubt it is the same problem but figured I would throw out my experience this year. I had a few songs where at certain parts some channels would start to lag (not at particularly intense sequencing portions) but would catch up on their own and likewise always seemed to reset in between songs. It was in a few sequences that I know ran ok last year, during parts where no new 2011 props were lit. I run the show from a mini-director. Figured it must be a bad cat5 cable. So I placed just the culprit songs on a 2nd SD card to make it easier to troubleshoot. The songs ran just fine then, so obviously not a cable issue, but instead must have been a SD card issue. Figured it must have been corrupted data, so I reburned the show onto the card (even after formatting it) and it still caused the problem. Ran tests on the card but no errors found. But apparently it is a bad card. It is an identical card to the one that works fine (same brand/specs/model, good quality and fast). Both cards worked just fine last year too. So it was an easy fix that I just stumbled upon. Again, doubt it is your problem too, but you never know, and also figured that somebody else reading this thread at some point might benefit from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeiilll Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Denise,I saw your other post on this and was goign to respond but didn't have time yesterday.You said that the problem "seemed" to be between controllers 4 and 5 in the line?I would take a close look at the cat 5 connectors on the boards on 4 and 5 to see if maybe there is a connection problem there since you said that you changed the cat 5 cables out already.Maybe corrosion in a connector or one has pulled loose from the board in the controller?Only other troubleshooting tip would be to move controllers around and see if the problem follows the move?I know that is a pretty last stand thing though as it is pretty involved time wise to do, but may be your only option left.As to your questions:1. There is no amplification of the signal out with the controllers.2. By too long, I would not think that it would make much difference as I have 75 foot ones running in my display in a couple of places where a 50 footer was a little tight with no problems. That said, there is always a slim chance that you could get into a situation where the total length of the Cat 5 cables causes some signal loss but that would tend to make a situation where the problem would be fairly constantly present rather than random (although it could cause random things as well).Just trying to throw out some other options for you here.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Brunner Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Thanks everybody. Basically I have 20 controllers, its not just one or two controllers, it can randomly pick any channel on any controller. I have two controllers on the roof and have 100 ft run up and down and they are long and have tons of extra. I am pulling all the cat 5 wire today and will check all cables and see what happens. Will keep you posted, any thoughts would be appreciated !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfing4Dough Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Denise Brunner wrote: 2: I have some cat 5 cords that are way to long, if I shorten them will it help reduce interference???Do your cables exceed these distances? If not, probably not the problem. I would suspect a bad cable as well (easiest to fix too).What is the maximum distance allowed between controllers?The connection from the PC to the first controller must be under 100 feet. After that the total distance (total of cable lengths between all controllers) can be 2000 - 4000 feet, depending on the cable type. You can run standard phone cable between controllers, however, CAT5E cable will give you much further reach.http://www.lightorama.com/w_faq-home.htm#_Toc124407466 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeiilll Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Ah, the plot thickens!Do you have any pictures of your display set up so that we can get a better idea of things and the layout? It would help since with 20 controllers it could be almost anything and without being able to see it very hard to make suggestions for things to try for you.Sure hope that you can get this figured out soon or that maybe on of us will strike upon a likely culprit for you.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'd lean towards a cat-5 socket or bad cable issue as opposed to cat-5 length issues, being that, if I'm reading this correctly, the show ran fine until this week.Unless Denise moved a lot of things around in the past week, the cable lengths have not changed since she first fired things up...and it worked fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Brunner Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Don, your 100 percent correct, I started the show just before Dec 1 and it ran up till a few nights ago perfect. now suddenly !!!! It also seems to be getting worse. I too think its a bad cat-5 male or female. If it doesn't rain, guess what I am doing today ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeiilll Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Okay, I was just looking back through posts to see the first "problem" one.Did this problem start with the arcing adapter problem?Was there a controller plugged into that arcing adapter?Arcing can induce extreme noise onto the power lines and possibly the data lines if it gets big enough. Could have caused a controller chip to become sensitive and "goofy" for lack of the more technical terms. It could also cause arching with components, connections, etc if it went on long enough.I also "suspect" a data connector problem but if it started with the arcing adapter, it does make a bigger list of possible things that could have been affected and are now causing strange things to happen randomly.If it was very wet around the time that the adapter was arcing, then checking the cat connectors carefully for signs of arcing and corrosion would be a logical step which it sounds like she has already done (to a point), which is not to say that the arcing didn't affect one or more of the data connectors for pitting or such.This could be a tough problem to isolate and fix if it is very random - sorry to say.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeiilll Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Denise,If you can't find any obvious things wrong, you could try to shutoff part of the display (say like 1/2 of the controllers by unplugging the Cat 5 cable between controllers) and see if a sequence that caused problems will run okay.Might be a quicker way to isolate some of the display controllers and lights to see.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeiilll Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I will try to check in later on today and see how things are going as I have some stuff to go take care of now.Good luck with the troubleshooting today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Don Gillespie Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 What Version are you running? There was no mention of this on your posts do you have the latest update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott T Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I had this same problem when I first setup my display. It took two days to find that I had TWO bad/intermittent cat 5 cable. Chasing ghost and gremlins are not fun. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Denise Brunner wrote: 1: Is there any amplification in the data signal at the controllers???NoDenise Brunner wrote: 2: I have some cat 5 cords that are way to long, if I shorten them will it help reduce interference???I think this is at least not related the way you might think. I have a couple places in the park, where controllers that are 10 feet apart have 100+ feet of cable in between them, because that is how the conduit in the ground runs.Also, my experience with cable building and testing (with $6,000 cable test tools) suggests that the quality of the ends have far more to do with the overall cable quality than the length of cable in between the ends.Also, I would strongly suggest ensuring that you never have excess cat 5 coiled up. Where I have excess, I usually have enough space that a long Z fold in the cable will absorb all the extra length. If I have spare extension cord to the inlets of the controllers, I make sure I do the same. I would suggest that these two items are probably more important than keeping them separated, in my experience.So shortening the cord may both help by getting rid of extra cable to coil, and may put better quality ends on the cable.Denise Brunner wrote: Have checked wiring, high and data. Moved all cat 5 wires as far from power cords as possible. Have checked programs. Its not a controller that needs to be reset since it happens randomly.... Not sure where to go?I would suggest that randomly does not prove that it is not a controller that needs reset, but I agree this sounds more like a data problem.Any transformer or wall wart powered elements in the display? Any inflatables, or other objects with motors? Any CFL bulbs? If so, do things improve if those items are temporarily unplugged?Anything in the house that was not running before the problem started? Different lights running, some new appliance? This is sort of stretching, but if you are using any shared circuits with the house, something may be back feeding noise this way.Have you invested in a cable test tool? Even the cheap $6 ones will find loose connections that may pass signal, but in a rather degraded form. And when you get to $50, some of them add split pair detection that will find one variety of cable flaws that can impact data signalling and noise immunity, but which won't show up on the $6 tools.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Brunner Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Pulled the entire display apart, re-ran all power cords, even though I am 99% LED, I seperated the load more. Pulled and check each cat-5 to check for corrosion and shortened all cables that I could. Now comes the fun. If I use the Hardware utility, it starts by finding all 20 units, if I refresh it finds less, and if I do it again it finds less again. The controller I had the arching on (yes it was a controller feed on the one that feed my only incandesent set of arches) I notice was one of the first to loose in presence in the Hardware controller. So I reset that controller and reset its ID and then back again (no change). Even when the hardware utility does not find certain controllers, when I run a sequence, it will run. With rain expected tonight I can't play much more. If you want a idea of what the display looks like go on my facebook page 'The Lights on Webster'Also there was a request on what version I am using - software or firmware on each of the controllers???Thanks for all the help, this is driving me crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 If you eliminate the incan arch controller, just jumper past it if you can, and eliminate it from the network, does the network stabilize?another thought is..Do you have an extra USB to RS485 adapter you can try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Brunner Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 I was thinking the same thing about the RS485 adapter... but I don't have one (on the this to purchase). I did pull the two controllers on the arches and so far (5 min) it does appear the network stablized.... will run for another 10-15 min and then add one of the controllers in (the one that didn't arc). If that is still OK I will try the last one again. I think I just had a hang up with both controllers still out... will post back in a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Brunner Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 I have added in one of the arch controllers and all still is good. The controller that is out of the chain in the one that had its power line arcing. I have already reset the controller but that did not help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Brunner Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Hopefully this is the last update. Network seemed stabilized with that one controller out. So I updated the firmware on that one controller and it appears that all is good. Really will not know till tonight when things are obvious, but I think we are good !!!Again, thanks for all your help and of course[align=center][/align] Merry Christmas !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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