CTB16PC Gen3 Jumper Config

[dqhall]

I need some clarification for the proper jumper configuration for the CTB16PC Gen 3 board. I have the two jumpers and was prepared to jumper the board for 15amp and realized the manual I was using was apparently written for the Gen2 boards. The jumper blades appear to be situated different between the two generation boards.

There is a hot jumper and a hot input for both sides. Do I jump

hot jumper -> hot jumper
or
hot jumper -> hot input

My common sense tells me hot jumper->hot jumper but I just want to make sure.

And finally, can I use any neutral blade on either side to jump to any neutral blade on the other side?

[LightORamaDan]

Hello,

Hot jumper to hot jumper... Any neutral on one side to any neutral on the other.

Dan

[clyfe]

Dan, I have a similar question. I plan on using a 4 conductor 12AWG outdoor jacket power cable to bring in power to my CTB16PC. My plan is to use Green-Ground, Black-(1-8 hot), and Red-(9-16 hot). My question is when I connect the White to one of the neutrals, do I need to jumper the neutral to the other side of the board?

[tomskillman]

clyfe wrote:

Dan, I have a similar question. I plan on using a 4 conductor 12AWG outdoor jacket power cable to bring in power to my CTB16PC. My plan is to use Green-Ground, Black-(1-8 hot), and Red-(9-16 hot). My question is when I connect the White to one of the neutrals, do I need to jumper the neutral to the other side of the board?

Yes...See Dan's post above - any neutral on one side, to any neutral on the other.

[LightORamaDan]

clyfe wrote:

Dan, I have a similar question. I plan on using a 4 conductor 12AWG outdoor jacket power cable to bring in power to my CTB16PC. My plan is to use Green-Ground, Black-(1-8 hot), and Red-(9-16 hot). My question is when I connect the White to one of the neutrals, do I need to jumper the neutral to the other side of the board?

Be careful doing this as it can cause damage if done incorrectly.

The two hots, the red and the black have to be connected to two different legs in your panel. If they are connected to the same leg then you have a problem. Things will "work" in that case BUT you will end up with an overloaded neutral.

The voltage difference between the red and the black has to be 240 for this to work correctly...

Dan

[clyfe]

Would it be better to use the green wire for the 2nd neutral, and not connect the ground? Since none of the connected lights are grounded anyway. Or physically ground the controller with a rod.

Here is the background. I have 4 dedicated 20 amp gfci receptacles at the front of my house. I was given about 150 ft of the 12awg 4 conductor outdoor cable. (Leftover from a project.) I thought it would be easier run this to each controller (4 total) than extension cords. I am only pulling about a 15 amp load at each controller.

Thanks!

[LightORamaDan]

With GFICs you cannot use a common neutral. will not work they will blow... Neutral has to balance back to the GFICs.

I cannot recommend getting rid of the ground wire....

Consider that most if not all of the wires that you plug into the unit will not have ground pins on them then the ground is important only for the box being safe to touch (if it is a metal box).

Dan

[clyfe]

The box is the standard lor PC plastic enclosure.

Thanks for your help!

[Guest wbottomley]

My suggestions is this... if you don't have a basic understanding of electricity, find an electrician or another hobby. Being wreckless in this area will get someone injured or killed.

[clyfe]

wbottomley wrote:

My suggestions is this... if you don't have a basic understanding of electricity, find an electrician or another hobby. Being wreckless in this area will get someone injured or killed.

So your saying only certified electricians should setup light shows? I guess a lot of people on this forum shouldn't be here.

I was only asking questions to make my display as safe as possible. I guess I'm not welcomed here. Sorry.

[Guest wbottomley]

clyfe wrote:

wbottomley wrote:

My suggestions is this... if you don't have a basic understanding of electricity, find an electrician or another hobby. Being wreckless in this area will get someone injured or killed.

So your saying only certified electricians should setup light shows? I guess a lot of people on this forum shouldn't be here.

I was only asking questions to make my display as safe as possible. I guess I'm not welcomed here. Sorry.

That's not the case.

According to your previous post, you're trying to comprise safety. I find that all to much this time of the year.

It's good that we promote safety over cost effectiveness.

[Dale W]

clyfe wrote:

wbottomley wrote:

My suggestions is this... if you don't have a basic understanding of electricity, find an electrician or another hobby. Being wreckless in this area will get someone injured or killed.

So your saying only certified electricians should setup light shows? I guess a lot of people on this forum shouldn't be here.

I was only asking questions to make my display as safe as possible. I guess I'm not welcomed here. Sorry.

see here: http://forums.lightorama.com/forum81/29032.html

[clyfe]

Thanks Dale. I shouldn't have reacted like I did. But when bottom came in without offering any advice, then telling me to find a new hobby, that rubbed me the wrong way. This is my 2nd year doing this and I have put many hours into this hobby. I am taking the time to ask those with experience how I can make the electrical aspects of this hobby safe, which is the opposite of a compromise. It is frustrating when people act this way. Posts like this cause people like me from asking questions which can be just as dangerous.

[Guest wbottomley]

clyfe wrote:

Thanks Dale. I shouldn't have reacted like I did. But when bottom came in without offering any advice, then telling me to find a new hobby, that rubbed me the wrong way. This is my 2nd year doing this and I have put many hours into this hobby. I am taking the time to ask those with experience how I can make the electrical aspects of this hobby safe, which is the opposite of a compromise. It is frustrating when people act this way. Posts like this cause people like me from asking questions which can be just as dangerous.

My reason for the blunt answer is the one where you wanted to use the ground wire as a second neutral. Anyone with fundamentals in electricity know this is wrong. That's why I use my generic response. I did not say find another hobby. I suggested one of the three options,

if you don't have a basic understanding of electricity, find an electrician or another hobby. Being wreckless in this area will get someone injured or killed.

One thing people don't understand is that regular household current has a huge potential of killing a person than other voltages. Because more people are in contact with that type of voltage rather than power lines.

So that's why the three wires are black, sometimes red (hot), white (neutral), and green (ground).

I'm just making sure everyone can have a Merry Christmas and remain alive. A killer display is nowhere as good as a bright display.

[clyfe]

Can you explain why a ground wire is necessary in this situation? I know why the ground is important, but it's not always used.

The controller (which does not connect to the ground wire) is housed in a locked plastic enclosure. None of the connected lights are utilizing the ground wire. The ground would only be connected to the strain relief inside the case. There is no metal outside the case to come in contact with anything or anyone.

I'm not being sarcastic, only curious.

Why do devices like irons, hair dryers, ect. not have grounds when they are always near water? Why are lights UL listed for outdoors not supplied with grounds?

Help me understand. I don't want anyone to get hurt.

[VO1HAX]

clyfe wrote:

Can you explain why a ground wire is necessary in this situation? I know why the ground is important, but it's not always used.

Why do devices like irons, hair dryers, ect. not have grounds when they are always near water? Why are lights UL listed for outdoors not supplied with grounds?

Several reasons why the ground should be included, but in this case if your "output cordsets" have grounds on them, you should have the ability to take advantage of that. Say, for some reason, something that requires a ground gets plugged into that controller, shorts to ground, but there is no ground, you could end up with a mess. On the other hand, if you replaces all of the output cordsets with 2 prong cords, that problem would quickly disappear, as nothing in the plastic enclosure is grounded.

As to why certain small appliances (and some outdoor lighting) don't have grounds is also for several reasons. 1) If they casing is not metal or you are not directly exposed to anything conductive, it is likely that you won't get a shock, due to the fact that isn't not grounded. If you are using it in an area where there is water, such as a bathroom or outdoors, a GFCI receptacle should be utilized. If the appliance falls in the water, either the connection will short and trip the GFCI or the electricity may ground (in the right conditions) and throw the balance off, also tripping the GFCI.

I hope that helps!

Brandon Jenkins
VO1HAX

[-klb-]

Most fatalities happen as a result of multiple individually survivable events stacking on each other..

Using green for something other than a ground is a much bigger "event" than if you just ran without ground. You are ignoring a common convention that everyone understands. You are taking what is supposed to be the safest colored wire in a configuration, and making it more dangerous. If you forget next year, or someone else does the hookup, you are potentially one "event" closer to a fatality.

For example, if someone thinks, Oh, it is just ground, I can hook it up later, and applies power to red, black, and properly connects neutral, what happens when they are investigating why this is not working, and brushes against the green wire that may now have 120V on it now, because hot is hooked up, some channel may be on, and there is no connected return to neutral?

[DanglinModifiers]

Seems like the easiest solution is to use a 20 Amp double pole GFCI breaker. Use the wire as originally planned, black - Hot 1, red - Hot 2, White is neutral, green is ground.

The double pole GFCI makes sure you're on opposite legs, thus you won't overload the neutral. If you wire up a 4 prong outlet and plug for it, then you're sure not to accidentally use the cable in the wrong spot.

I have a 50A, 220 outlet on a GFCI breaker I use for my remote subpanel. Works great, and is basically the same thing as is being proposed here.

[Guest wbottomley]

clyfe wrote:

Why do devices like irons, hair dryers, ect. not have grounds when they are always near water? Why are lights UL listed for outdoors not supplied with grounds?

Help me understand. I don't want anyone to get hurt.

Irons, hair dryers, etc have been double insulated so we can't have contact. As far as lights, here's a ton of different responses for that: http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=why+don't+christmas+lights+have+a+ground+wire&pbx=1&oq=why+don't+christmas+lights+have+a+ground+wire&aq=f&aqi=q-w1&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=259l11834l0l12506l53l41l5l0l0l2l1457l17456l2-8.15.12.2.1.2l44l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=f10181c958c90d45&biw=1089&bih=944

[ErnieHorning]

wbottomley wrote:

One thing people don't understand is that regular household current has a huge potential of killing a person than other voltages.

People that did something wrong in this area don't typically come back an tell us why they died.

Though a green wire may conduct electricity just as well as a white one, you may only get one chance to do things right.