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magish01

Controller Daisy Chain Question

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Is it possible to connect your computer by CAT 5 to one controller, then connect two other controllers (or 1 controller and 1 CCR) to that same original controller (would probably have to use a CAT 5 and a phone cord). Or do they have to be connected as a straight daisy chain to work. Photo attached for clarification of my question.
Thanks for any help.


Attached files 263587=14619-Untitled-1.jpg

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Order is not important, but they must be a straight line daisy chain. The USB-485B can be in the middle of that chain, and they do have a network splitter that can split things into two separate chains. I believe it can be in the middle of one chain, but only provide jacks for it to be at an end of the other chain.

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Raaaats, I just ordered(and received) the standard USB485.. wished I had really looked at the B model and been able to split the data lines across the yard instead of having to daisy-chain the controllers together.

teege

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Cracker wrote:

I used by USB-485B at klb stated. The USB-485B has 2 out rj45 ports which gave me the ability to 'Y' my network.

To be technically correct (and nitpicky) your network is not a 'Y'. It is still a straight line, but the USB-485B is in the middle.

TJ Hvasta wrote:
wished I had really looked at the B model and been able to split the data lines across the yard instead of having to daisy-chain the controllers together.

If you open the USB-485B, you will find that the two jacks are wired in parallel. Thus, you could wire a second RJ45 jack into the USB-485 to put it in the middle of the network. Albeit, it could look ugly.

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Steven wrote:

Cracker wrote:
I used by USB-485B at klb stated. The USB-485B has 2 out rj45 ports which gave me the ability to 'Y' my network.

To be technically correct (and nitpicky) your network is not a 'Y'. It is still a straight line, but the USB-485B is in the middle.

TJ Hvasta wrote:
wished I had really looked at the B model and been able to split the data lines across the yard instead of having to daisy-chain the controllers together.

If you open the USB-485B, you will find that the two jacks are wired in parallel. Thus, you could wire a second RJ45 jack into the USB-485 to put it in the middle of the network. Albeit, it could look ugly.

Never tried it with LOR but with my DMX stuff I use these (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10513&cs_id=1051304&p_id=7294&seq=1&format=2) and they work GREAT. As logn as your not powering items between the controllers (ELL or other stuff) this should work just fine. But never know till you try if it introduces issues in the stream.

Harrison

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magish01 wrote:

Is it possible to connect your computer by CAT 5 to one controller, then connect two other controllers (or 1 controller and 1 CCR) to that same original controller (would probably have to use a CAT 5 and a phone cord). Or do they have to be connected as a straight daisy chain to work. Photo attached for clarification of my question.
Thanks for any help.

To clarify what I think is the OP's question that hasn't been answered is can a controller be used as a Y-splitter in a sense. Have a cat5 input to the controller, and then use both the cat5 output and the phone jack output to go to additional controllers, in effect creating a Y in the network. Don't know the answer, but do understand the question. ;)
And if possible to do this, can it split and then go to a controller and a CCR (rather than 2 controllers). I don't own CCRs but suspect that it has to have a cat5 going to it rather than a phone cable, but I have no clue on this.

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Surfing4Dough wrote:

To clarify what I think is the OP's question that hasn't been answered is can a controller be used as a Y-splitter in a sense. Have a cat5 input to the controller, and then use both the cat5 output and the phone jack output to go to additional controllers, in effect creating a Y in the network.

The answer is: "No."

It may work somewhat, but it would no longer be a proper RS485 network, and could have spurious results depending on temperature and other factors. The recommendation is to wire the network in a straight line as specified.

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Didnt Dan say that data rates between the two jacks (RJ11/45) were different? Something like that.. Last year there was a post asking the same thing abt using both type-jacks.. short answer was no..

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Thanks for all the info folks. Looks, like it is time to start digging into the chairs and sofas at home to find the spare change to buy ANOTHER piece of equipment. Sheesh, this is starting(???) to get expensive.

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magish01 wrote:

Thanks for all the info folks. Looks, like it is time to start digging into the chairs and sofas at home to find the spare change to buy ANOTHER piece of equipment. Sheesh, this is starting(???) to get expensive.


I have a question for you?

Why do you want to "Y" the connection. You are still using the same amount of CAT5 cable to go as follows:

PC to Controller #1 to Controller #2 to CCR.

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jldavis1969 wrote:

magish01 wrote:
Thanks for all the info folks. Looks, like it is time to start digging into the chairs and sofas at home to find the spare change to buy ANOTHER piece of equipment. Sheesh, this is starting(???) to get expensive.


I have a question for you?

Why do you want to "Y" the connection. You are still using the same amount of CAT5 cable to go as follows:

PC to Controller #1 to Controller #2 to CCR.




Agree. A lot cheaper to buy longer cat5 and backtrack if necessary than to buy more equipment. You can daisy chain a long series of controllers, with just cat5.

Best prices:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10208

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The seup I am looking at is 1 controller on the right side of the house, one controller on the left side, CCR on eves (can connect at either left or right side controller), and CCR on 2nd story gabled windows on left side of house. CAT 5 and computer are in garage on left side of the house. Was trying to avoid the long double back runs of CAT5 and the Rube Goldberg setup if I didn't have to. I can make it work with the CAT 5 but didn't know that the phone line and CAT 5 would operate on different timings, an ot be able to be it's own "Y". I know, it is going to look like "The Wizard of Oz" management-----I took a little of the scarecrow and threw him over here, and a little over there.

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magish01 wrote:

The seup I am looking at is 1 controller on the right side of the house, one controller on the left side, CCR on eves (can connect at either left or right side controller), and CCR on 2nd story gabled windows on left side of house. CAT 5 and computer are in garage on left side of the house.

I would run it out of the garage, to the controller on the left (on the lawn?), then back to the house (a small run-back, but not bad), up to the 2nd story gables, then in the gutter over to the CCR on the right corner, directly down to the bushes, over the lawn to the right controller on the tree. That's a loop, but not that much of a double-back.

There are probably things I don't know about your setup, but this is how I would do it.


Attached files 263676=14623-11311 Homewood Dr..png

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You could do ELLs too. The wireless works really well. Had one in the garage to the front last year and i picked up two more to get rid of a couple of longer runs.

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magish01 wrote:

The seup I am looking at is 1 controller on the right side of the house, one controller on the left side, CCR on eves (can connect at either left or right side controller), and CCR on 2nd story gabled windows on left side of house. CAT 5 and computer are in garage on left side of the house. Was trying to avoid the long double back runs of CAT5 and the Rube Goldberg setup if I didn't have to. I can make it work with the CAT 5 but didn't know that the phone line and CAT 5 would operate on different timings, an ot be able to be it's own "Y". I know, it is going to look like "The Wizard of Oz" management-----I took a little of the scarecrow and threw him over here, and a little over there.

Compared to all the extension cords you are going to be running everywhere, a little extra cat5 isn't going to be a big deal.

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Dave Batzdorf wrote:

You could do ELLs too. The wireless works really well. Had one in the garage to the front last year and i picked up two more to get rid of a couple of longer runs.


Unless you need wireless or you want wireless the CAT5 is a less expensive alternative.

I keep thinking each year how I can incorporate new controllers and how I would run CAT5 to each one. My first year I had issues with the CAT5 distance to the first controller. I had a cable made to 100 feet and it would not work for me. So I had another made at 80 feet and it worked fine. Distance after the first run is really not an issue. I have 150 feet of front yard to work with so as long as you stay within 100 feet on your first controller long runs should not be an issue.

At some point down the road I may add my neighbor across the street to my setup and then I would need a wireless connection.

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One year, before splitting the city show into multiple networks, I had the USB run:

1) come out the front window
2) to a few controllers on the front of the building
3) a 100 foot + run to the back of the building
4) a 200 foot run that came back along the side of the building
5) then through a conduit under the alley,
6) then run to another 11 controllers spread all over that park above ground

Later, we got more conduit run, but I also split the show into three networks, on 3 USB-485B.

First network handled controllers on one side of the front, and all the ones on the back for the roof.

Second network ran along the other 2/3 of the front of the building.

The third one ran:

1) through the conduit under the alley
2) through an in ground box, to a second conduit
3) to an in ground box in the middle of a 75 foot line of display elements and about 15 controllers
4) back into the in ground box, and through conduit
5) up through another in ground box for another 5 controllers
and repeating all this for about 1,000 total feet.

Especially for number 3, there is a 75 foot double back that I don't even think about.

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Thanks for all the positive input and ideas. I now feel like the "Little Engine That Could". This forum is GREAT!

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Check out this thread here..

http://forums.lightorama.com/forum97/26528.html

I have one of these units running on my LOR network with no problems, turns a daisy chain network into a star run network.. I did however connect the ground wire as mentioned.. I have two network runs outside and two network runs inside.

here is the link to the actual device..

http://oldsite.rcstechnology.com/products/accessories/rs-485_hub.htm

Hope this helps..

Mike..

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I have split my network twice without a problem. For my 2010 setup I use a usb 485b at the computer. Then run a 30ft phone line to the first controller. From the first controller I run two Cat5 cables out. One to controller 2 then 3. A second Cat5 cable to controller 8. At controller 8, I plug a phone cable into the second Cat5 socket(the phone socket is only for input signal). The phone cable then plugs into controller 9 phone socket. From controller 9, I plug in two more Cat5 cables. One goes to controllers 11 then 12. The second cable goes to controllers 10,7,6,4, then 5 in series. This keeps my data lines at there shortest, without having to backtrack. I haven't seen any glitches in the signal. However, It is a little tricky to get the phone cable to seat properly in a Cat5 socket. Once I was hooked up, I used the hardware utility to make sure it could find all the controllers. This may not be the official method for hooking them up, but has worked for me. I don't have any CCR's so I'm not sure what effect this splitting would have on them.

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Thanks Jeff, but I remember (I will have to find the thread) earlier in the year, someone had asked abt Y-ing @ the RJ11/RJ45 sockets because one socket was bad.. could it "RJ45 in" and "RJ11 out", and the answer from a "Tribal Elder" was no.. If you're able to actually make it work, then good to know.

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Steven wrote:

Surfing4Dough wrote:
To clarify what I think is the OP's question that hasn't been answered is can a controller be used as a Y-splitter in a sense.  Have a cat5 input to the controller, and then use both the cat5 output and the phone jack output to go to additional controllers, in effect creating a Y in the network.

The answer is: "No."

It may work somewhat, but it would no longer be a proper RS485 network, and could have spurious results depending on temperature and other factors.  The recommendation is to wire the network in a straight line as specified.


This is what I remembered from last years post asking if RJ11 and RJ45's can be use simultainiously..

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Last year I had some controllers that the second cat5 jack didn't work. I took the cat5 caple and split it after my first box and ran 4 boxes off it and had no problems!

I have NEVER been able to get the phone jacks to work.

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