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Song permission


Caleb Linburg

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So I guess I need a license if I have my windows open and anyone sitting in the parking lot in my apt. complex can even remotely hear any music I may be playing! What a crock of sh*t that would be.

As for displays being televised by the local media, would they also need a license for REBROADCASTING the music in your display? Seems to me they'd be the bigger ones to go after, especially if they didn't acquire permission to televise your display and did it anyway, just because they were cruising around during those times we have displays up.

And if they are "covered" under their station, then why would we need a license for them rebroadcasting? This whole licensing thing is ridiculous and totally arrogant of these recording industries (in my opinion), it's not like we're running a "pirate" radio station for profit or anything. And then, what about items like the MR. CHRISTMAS units that have COPYRIGHTED music built into them? Sure the manufacturer may/may not have gotten a license to install the song, but then when it gets played in a display, the SAME AS WITH WHAT WE DO WITH LOR, I SEE NO DIFFERENCE IN THIS RESPECT!, shouldn't it also require the person using it to have a "license" too? Seems to me you'd have to by what I've been reading here.

Then what about these "Halloween CD's" that you purchase that state right on them: Use in your haunted house, as background sounds/music for your Halloween Decor? Some of these are by BMI and others, but then contradict themselves with "don't play or perform publicly". They CAN NOT have it BOTH ways now can they? It's either got to be one or the other.

That's why I think this licensing issue should ONLY be for COMMERCIAL ENDEVEORS and anyone that does this from their own home or apartment should be exempt from such shennanigans! Otherwise there's going to be a lot of folks with Mr. Christmas displays violating this same licensing agreement, as that unit is NO DIFFERENT than if you were playing the same song via a LOR Sequence, your CD player or via your FM transmitter, which some have done with a Mr. Christmas unit as well.

Just totally ludicrous in my opinion.

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Rick Childers wrote:

This kind of sucks the life out of my hobby :X


I agree. Kind of makes it pointless to have the option to synchronize your lights to music doesn't it Rick?

Sequence editor may as well not even have the music option and just do silent animations, unless you're rich, can afford the music licenses and are a commercial entity. For the basic hobbyist, may as well just be silent animations and nothing more.
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Orville wrote:

Rick Childers wrote:
This kind of sucks the life out of my hobby :X


I agree. Kind of makes it pointless to have the option to synchronize your lights to music doesn't it Rick?

Sequence editor may as well not even have the music option and just do silent animations, unless you're rich, can afford the music licenses and are a commercial entity. For the basic hobbyist, may as well just be silent animations and nothing more.




Don't let it!!!! If it bothers you that much, either purchase the license, don't use music, or just don't worry about it.

Dwelling on the many laws and regulations will just give you gas.:shock:
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Paul Roberson wrote:

Orville wrote:
Rick Childers wrote:
This kind of sucks the life out of my hobby :X


I agree. Kind of makes it pointless to have the option to synchronize your lights to music doesn't it Rick?

Sequence editor may as well not even have the music option and just do silent animations, unless you're rich, can afford the music licenses and are a commercial entity. For the basic hobbyist, may as well just be silent animations and nothing more.




Don't let it!!!! If it bothers you that much, either purchase the license, don't use music, or just don't worry about it.

Dwelling on the many laws and regulations will just give you gas.:shock:


I'm not dwelling on it myself. Don't need the gas! LOL But in my case would just give me a severe migraine, which I definitely don't need.

Just bringing up some other items that use Music that is in retrospect to what we do, should also require a license too, like the Mr. Christmas box or any item that sits outside and has built in music anyone can hear that also controls lights on something.

Just giving some added food for thought here actually.



Am I gonna let it detract from what I do or my display and the music? ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NOT!
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yeah what about those small christmas light displays you can get at walmart and lowes you can hook up your ipod to those 6 channel controllers they sell so they should have a warning on it and for the cost of the licence isn't it 15 dollars per night

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someone should call or email BMI and ask them if you need a licence or not for a chrismtas light display on personal property

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T110431 wrote:

someone should call or email BMI and ask them if you need a licence or not for a chrismtas light display on personal property


LOL!! Yeah you should do that. Nothing like drawing attention to yourself. ; )

If they have not thought about it maybe they could look into it further.:shock:

It be like the guy who don't know your not suppose to drink while driving to pull up to a cop and ask if it it OK to drink while driving. :P
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I actually would hope no one would say "Hey look at us. Do we need a license to do this?"

When times are tough and revenues are down people start hunting for ways to pull in money. Sometimes 'making more money' = looking for more people to fine, or charge a license fee to. ; )

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Orville wrote:

So I guess I need a license if I have my windows open and anyone sitting in the parking lot in my apt. complex can even remotely hear any music I may be playing!

I believe (but IANAL) that a license is needed to play copyrighted works for the public (or paying guests). If a member of the public accidentally hears a work that is clearly not meant for the public, then it is not covered.

This can be used to argue that the Christmas display in your front yard is only for your family and close friends, and the public is not invited. This argument would work well for a gated community, but kind of breaks down when a public notice of the performance is made, via a web site or a news broadcast.

As for displays being televised by the local media, would they also need a license for REBROADCASTING the music in your display?

They undoubtedly already hold such a license.

And if they are "covered" under their station, then why would we need a license for them rebroadcasting?

We don't need a license for them rebroadcasting. We need a license for the display itself (see above about the public notice).

This whole licensing thing is ridiculous and totally arrogant of these recording industries (in my opinion),

I agree, but it's the law. In fact, it's part of the supreme law of the United States, from Article I, Section 8 of The Constitution: "The Congress shall have Power ... To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;"

And then, what about items like the MR. CHRISTMAS units that have COPYRIGHTED music built into them?

I don't think Mr. Christmas uses copyrighted music. It's mostly traditional carols, which have been in the public domain for hundreds of years. They most likely paid some artist to create MIDI sequences of those carols, avoiding royalties. The original Mr. Christmas (and maybe the current versions, I haven't looked at them for a while) had "traditional" and "Siberian" styles of carols. Clearly the "Siberian" style was a take-off of TSO, but it wasn't TSO's work, it just kind of sounds like it.

Sure the manufacturer may/may not have gotten a license to install the song, but then when it gets played in a display

Because the manufacturer owns the version of the song on the machine, by selling it they are giving the user the license to use the song in their display. It probably says that somewhere in the fine print included with the machine.

Then what about these "Halloween CD's" that you purchase that state right on them: Use in your haunted house, as background sounds/music for your Halloween Decor? Some of these are by BMI and others, but then contradict themselves with "don't play or perform publicly". They CAN NOT have it BOTH ways now can they? It's either got to be one or the other.

If the CD gives permission on the sleeve, then either they have the right to grant you permission to use it in your haunted house, or they could be subject to a cease and desist order from the owner of the music. It depends. I'll have to look more closely at my "Sounds of Halloween" CD when I get home.

That's why I think this licensing issue should ONLY be for COMMERCIAL ENDEVEORS and anyone that does this from their own home or apartment should be exempt from such shennanigans!

I agree that's the way it should be, but that's not the way it is.
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to perform or display it at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered




now what are they refering as substantial numberwise

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T110431 wrote:



This caught my attention in your link above at the end of the document {mainly the bolded text at the end}:


[align=left]If you are publicly performing music via a digital transmission, a license for the sound recording will be required, in addition to the license for the sheet music. A license to publicly perform a sound recording can be acquired either from the copyright owner or from the U.S. Copyright Office. The license from the U.S. Copyright Office is called a “statutory” license and can be purchased without regard to the copyright owner’s
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So my question is: If I purchase this "statutory license", does that cover all the other licensing issues from BMA, ASCAP, or whomever?

Because that is how I am interpreting it.

And if so, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper to get this type license as it is only $25.00. Just don't know if that $25.00 is for any set length of time, like a year from date of issuance, as the site doesn't disclose any other information except what is below in bold print.

This is what it says on the U.S. Copyright site:

Notice of use of sound recordings under statutory license (17 USC 112 and 114) $25.00
Amended 17 USC 112 and 114 notice $25.00

So does this mean if I purchase this license it would cover my show? It doesn't give a number of viewers or performances, nor does it state how long the license is valid (although I think one year from date of purchase/issuance, but can't say for sure).

This can all be viewed here:

http://www.copyright.gov/docs/fees.html

I am thinking of calling and asking about the statutory license to get more details on what all it covers and for how long is it valid once issued.

Because if we can get a license for $25.00 that would cover our displays for a year, that sure as hell beats $200+ here or $300+ there! So I'm quite interested in this aspect.

Actually hoping someone here may have more information on this so we all know, and I don't have to call and ask, even if I do, I'm setting it up as hypothetical setting just to get the information.


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I can play it loud enough for a few friends and family to enjoy. That's the law.

My neighbor across the street, is my friend. My neighbors on either side and behind me, are my friends. The one 3 doors down is NOT my friend. So I'll have to make sure that he can't hear it....LOL

BUT....for $25 I MIGHT consider it. $200 - $300....not if my life depended on it.

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