Phone Line Distance

[LarryDrumAZ]

Hey all. Searched but could not find the answer. What is the max distance I can run between controllers with Phone Line? I know the first controller must be cat5 and under 100', which is no problem. Of my 5 controllers the max distance between each one would probably be no more than 150'. Will Phone Line work for this (I have a 1000' roll of phone line left over from old jobs) or do I need to get a roll of Cat5?

Thanks!

[caniac]

LarryandGlenora wrote:

Hey all. Searched but could not find the answer. What is the max distance I can run between controllers with Phone Line? I know the first controller must be cat5 and under 100', which is no problem. Of my 5 controllers the max distance between each one would probably be no more than 150'. Will Phone Line work for this (I have a 1000' roll of phone line left over from old jobs) or do I need to get a roll of Cat5?

Thanks!

I think Cat5 can be run up to 300', the initial 100' is a LOR/Controller requirement for the first controller. I could be wrong but I think that is the general rule.

[LarryDrumAZ]

Yes, I know the distances for cat5, I was wondering what the max distance is for Phone Cable. Since the LOR Network does not exceed 115K baud, you are able to use phone line, but at shorter distances. I cannot find the distance in any literature or forum.

Thanks again!

[PaulXmas]

Looks like at least 2000'

Info from here:
http://www.lorwiki.com/faq/44-general-qaa/108-what-is-the-maximum-distance-allowed-between-controllers


The total distance of your LOR network can be 2000 - 4000 feet, depending on the wire type - CAT5E will give you further reach than standard phone cable. Also, if you are using the SC485 Serial Adapter, the connection from the computer to the first controller needs to be under 100 feet. If you are using the USB485 or USB485B USB Adapter, the 100' limit does not apply.

[LarryDrumAZ]

PaulXmas wrote:

Looks like at least 2000' 

Info from here: 
http://www.lorwiki.com/faq/44-general-qaa/108-what-is-the-maximum-distance-allowed-between-controllers
 

The total distance of your LOR network can be 2000 - 4000 feet, depending on the wire type - CAT5E will give you further reach than standard phone cable. Also, if you are using the SC485 Serial Adapter, the connection from the computer to the first controller needs to be under 100 feet. If you are using the USB485 or USB485B USB Adapter, the 100' limit does not apply.

 

Awesome! Thanks again for the help!

[PaulXmas]

LarryandGlenora wrote:

PaulXmas wrote:

Looks like at least 2000'

Info from here:
http://www.lorwiki.com/faq/44-general-qaa/108-what-is-the-maximum-distance-allowed-between-controllers


The total distance of your LOR network can be 2000 - 4000 feet, depending on the wire type - CAT5E will give you further reach than standard phone cable. Also, if you are using the SC485 Serial Adapter, the connection from the computer to the first controller needs to be under 100 feet. If you are using the USB485 or USB485B USB Adapter, the 100' limit does not apply.

Awesome! Thanks again for the help!

No Problem.

I wonder if you could "split" the phone cable ???? I know you can for phones but can NOT for network cables.

Ummm might be something to test. Anyone know if there would be a problem with this?

[LarryDrumAZ]

I read something similar about Cat5. Dan said splitting the cat5 would have undesirable results...

[garyfunk]

Phone cable will get you about 1/4 the distance of Cat5 cable. And with phone line, you will get a lot of noise.

[cmoore60]

Like to add. The 100' distance from the adapter to the first controller with cat 5 wire pertains if you are using the parrallel port LOR adapter. This is because this adapter is powered from the aux. power the controller generates. Where as the USB adapters are powered off the USB port of the computer.

Chuck

[Max-Paul]

Hi all,

the 300' rule is for Ethernet. Do not confuse what we are doing here just because we are using Cat5 wire. This is a RS-485 network using cat 5 wire.

In a RS-485 network and by the book the distance is 4000 feet and 32 devices. Now I have been told that LOR uses a newer chip that allows for up to 64 devices. More devices can be added using a repeater to add 64 more devices. Again this is by the book. In the real world your numbers and distance will drop some.

I am not aware of any parallel adapter that chuck mentions. But the SC-485 device that starts out as a serial RS-232 to RS-485 does have a 50 or is it 100' limit distance to the first controller. Because it draws power from the controller not the computer as the USB adapters do.

As for the phone line. I do not know the limit of this wire. But more than likely due to the fact that phone lines do not always employ a twist to the wire pairs. It is more suspect able to line noise.

[cmoore60]

Sorry I MIS types the computer port.

Page 4 in this document give the info you need.

http://www.lightorama.com/PDF/RS485_Adapters_Man_Web.pdf



Chuck

[jstorms]

The twist in the cat5 cable is to help prevent crosstalk and noise on the individual pairs. There is also some shielding involved. A normal phone cable still has pairs, but lacks the twist and may/may not have shielding. The longer the wire the more susceptible you are to noise and could affect your show.

I'm really interested in hearing more about what you are doing? How far are you looking to put controller units? Are you looking to control multiple houses, a whole neighborhood, do you have a huge front yard ????

[Steven]

PaulXmas wrote:

I wonder if you could "split" the phone cable ???? I know you can for phones but can NOT for network cables.

The LOR network needs 4 wires (signal ground, data positive, data negative, +9v power). Typical phone cable has 4 wires, so no, you cannot "split" it, as all wires are needed.

Cat5 cable has 8 wires (4 pairs), and the LOR network uses only 4. Some of us use the 4 "spare" wires for other purposes, such as audio to outdoor speakers and/or security alarms.

[LarryDrumAZ]

jstorms wrote:

The twist in the cat5 cable is to help prevent crosstalk and noise on the individual pairs. There is also some shielding involved. A normal phone cable still has pairs, but lacks the twist and may/may not have shielding. The longer the wire the more susceptible you are to noise and could affect your show.

I'm really interested in hearing more about what you are doing? How far are you looking to put controller units? Are you looking to control multiple houses, a whole neighborhood, do you have a huge front yard ????

What I am trying to accomplish is save a little money if I can by using the roll of phone cable I have in my garage. I used to work for a contractor and I kept the roll of phone cable left over from a job. The max distance between controllers would likely be no more than 150 feet. We are including the neighbors house this year, but his controller will only be 40-50 feet from the show computer, so it will most likely be the 1st controller. All I was looking for was the possibility of saving some dough by using what I have now. Based on what I have read about Noise and length, I will probably pick up a roll of cat5 or cat6 and make my own cables, as I was going to do with the phone line.

Thanks again for all the help, it really did Help!

[lightzilla]

One of the best fellows to ask about phone line in Tim Fischer. He has been using phone line since 2003. From what I read in his posts he has no issues using phone cable and he has a good size yard.

I used 1 phone cable in my display last Christmas because I ran out of cat5 cable.....(I thought I had enough) lol ......but I did not and so I added 1 phone cable that was about 20ft in length. Worked well for me.

I bought some heavy duty phone cable to try out this year. It was a good price.

Anyway I would PM Tim Fischer via here or the PC forum.

[PaulXmas]

Steven wrote:

PaulXmas wrote:

I wonder if you could "split" the phone cable ???? I know you can for phones but can NOT for network cables.

The LOR network needs 4 wires (signal ground, data positive, data negative, +9v power). Typical phone cable has 4 wires, so no, you cannot "split" it, as all wires are needed.

Cat5 cable has 8 wires (4 pairs), and the LOR network uses only 4. Some of us use the 4 "spare" wires for other purposes, such as audio to outdoor speakers and/or security alarms.

I wasn't thinking of spliting the wires just the signal. You can splice phone wires to many phone jacks.

[Brian Mitchell]

I have had zero issues using a mixture of phone and CAT cables. In fact my first run is a 50ft phone line from my computer because the flat cable will fit between the storm window panes without leaving much of a gap.

[lightzilla]

Brian Mitchell wrote:

In fact my first run is a 50ft phone line from my computer because the flat cable will fit between the storm window panes without leaving much of a gap.

Actually Tim Fischer said the same thing. His 1st line from the computer to a controller is a phone line and he has been doing that since 2003 without a problem.

[Denny]

Never had a problem with phone line either. One year, I had a 150 foot run of phone line between two controllers.