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Guest Don Gillespie

CCR'show many can you use together

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Guest Don Gillespie

OK I have been trying to search the forum but can't find the answer I am looking for how many CCR's can you use at one time? as like led lights I can use 25 strings on one channel how many CCR's can you use? does each CCR have to have its own controller? more questions to come:D

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Normally each CCR has its own dedicated controller which comes with it. This is needed to program the 50 pixels individually.

The manual does say you can wire 2 or more together using a single controller. But there are some important gotchas.

You lose individual control and now the single 50 RGB channel controller will control 2 pixels per RGB channel or however many you have strung together.

You need to cut the sealed end to do this which means you need to make sure its watertight again. Not certain how this effects the warranty.

You need to hook up an additional power supply. You can not power additional strings from the controller. While you do connect the control signals end to end, you power each CCR from what would be the controller end with its own power source. So no matter how many controllers you use, you still have the same power draw per CCR.

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Guest Don Gillespie

ItsMeBobO wrote:

Normally each CCR has its own dedicated controller which comes with it. This is needed to program the 50 pixels individually.

The manual does say you can wire 2 or more together using a single controller. But there are some important gotchas.

You lose individual control and now the single 50 RGB channel controller will control 2 pixels per RGB channel or however many you have strung together.

You need to cut the sealed end to do this which means you need to make sure its watertight again. Not certain how this effects the warranty.

You need to hook up an additional power supply. You can not power additional strings from the controller. While you do connect the control signals end to end, you power each CCR from what would be the controller end with its own power source. So no matter how many controllers you use, you still have the same power draw per CCR.

ok if I understand this correctly you can cat5 as many units as you want as long as each CCR has its own power supply or controller is this correct I am not interested in cutting the CCR just how many can you cat5 together

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Don Gillespie wrote:

ok if I understand this correctly you can cat5 as many units as you want as long as each CCR has its own power supply or controller is this correct I am not interested in cutting the CCR just how many can you cat5 together


You can add as many CCRs as the LOR network supports, each with its own controller and controller address. Each CCR and address will add 157 channels to your list in the sequence editor - (50 RGB channels + 7 macro channels).

If you want several CCRs to behave identically, then you can give them the same address. This reduces the channel count in the editor. Last year I ran 3 pairs (each with 2 CCRs joined ene to end) from the same address and this worked well for an outline of my eaves.

Regards Geoff

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LOR provides the option of having more than 1 network. This is a setting in the config set in the sequence editor which identifies the network adapter for each controller channel.

Last year I had 8 CCRs and 10 other controllers on the same network. No problems were observed. I used both individual channel control and CCR macros. Many fewer commands are sent when you use macros.

If you plan to use regular programing you may consider a 'CCR' network just for them.

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Guest Don Gillespie

Geoff Harvey wrote:

Don Gillespie wrote:
ok if I understand this correctly you can cat5 as many units as you want as long as each CCR has its own power supply or controller is this correct I am not interested in cutting the CCR just how many can you cat5 together


You can add as many CCRs as the LOR network supports, each with its own controller and controller address. Each CCR and address will add 157 channels to your list in the sequence editor - (50 RGB channels + 7 macro channels).

If you want several CCRs to behave identically, then you can give them the same address. This reduces the channel count in the editor. Last year I ran 3 pairs (each with 2 CCRs joined ene to end) from the same address and this worked well for an outline of my eaves.

Regards Geoff



Thanks Geoff, my memory is really good, my house and your house are identical the way the eaves are, so that was the answer I was looking for, when you say you joined them end for end how do you do that is it like a rope light that you can screw them together or is there a special way to do this?

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Guest Don Gillespie

ItsMeBobO wrote:

LOR provides the option of having more than 1 network. This is a setting in the config set in the sequence editor which identifies the network adapter for each controller channel.

Last year I had 8 CCRs and 10 other controllers on the same network. No problems were observed. I used both individual channel control and CCR macros. Many fewer commands are sent when you use macros.

If you plan to use regular programing you may consider a 'CCR' network just for them.

When you talk of networks this throws me for a loop I am not that versed in computer stuff or technical stuff, so when you say you had 8 CCRs and 10 controllers what does that mean exactly, I as of right now have 7 contollers and want to add some CCRs to my house and garage trying to figure out how many channels I would use up on a controller?

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None. A ccr has its own controller. You can daisy chain them all together. Your 7, then your ccrs one cat5 in and out of each until the end.

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Guest Don Gillespie

ItsMeBobO wrote:

The CCR controller is a little one the size of two decks of cards. Much smaller than a regular AC controller with outlets on it.

pictures here of 4 controllers and 4 power supplies in one box
http://lightorama.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=25897&forum_id=89&jump_to=236984#p236984

So you can daisy chain quite a few of these together lets say I use four CCRs on my garage and four on my house and I want these to operate independantly of each other will I require 8 channels on one of my LOR controllers to do this? the effect I am trying to go for is have one gable on my garage turn red and the other gable turn blue and then the straight runs on the garage turn green, of course the house might be a different effect but you get the idea?

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Don Gillespie wrote:

So you can daisy chain quite a few of these together lets say I use four CCRs on my garage and four on my house and I want these to operate independantly of each other will I require 8 channels on one of my LOR controllers to do this? the effect I am trying to go for is have one gable on my garage turn red and the other gable turn blue and then the straight runs on the garage turn green, of course the house might be a different effect but you get the idea?



Don,

This is a fundumental miss-understanding that many people have.

You do not need ANY traditional LOR controllers to run CCRs. A CCR comes with a miniature 150 channel controller. So a person could purchase a CCR and a Generic Starter Package (with adapter and basic software) and they are ready to go.

To control a CCR ribbon, you need the controller that comes with it. That controller give you full control (150 channels) of the ribbon so you certainly have independent control of it.

The CCR controller daisy chains into a LOR network just like any traditional LOR controller. It has two CAT5 connectors to facilitate placement in the daisy chain.

-----

Now the real question about supporting CCRs is the number of channels. For example 10 CCRs will have 1500 channels. That is pushing a LOR network to or beyond its limits. A LOR network will support 1500 channels with slow paced action but not fast stuff. So a limit of 6 CCRs per LOR network is practical.

Dan

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LightORamaDan wrote:

Now the real question about supporting CCRs is the number of channels. For example 10 CCRs will have 1500 channels. That is pushing a LOR network to or beyond its limits. A LOR network will support 1500 channels with slow paced action but not fast stuff. So a limit of 6 CCRs per LOR network is practical.

Dan


Is this true for the CCB's also?

Could you also point us in the direction of where we can learn about how to set up and use multiple LOR networks?

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jimswinder wrote:

LightORamaDan wrote:
Now the real question about supporting CCRs is the number of channels. For example 10 CCRs will have 1500 channels. That is pushing a LOR network to or beyond its limits. A LOR network will support 1500 channels with slow paced action but not fast stuff. So a limit of 6 CCRs per LOR network is practical.

Dan


Is this true for the CCB's also?

Could you also point us in the direction of where we can learn about how to set up and use multiple LOR networks?


It is an issue of channel count and will be an issue with CCBs as well. We plan to attempt to double the speed of the LOR network this year which will help reduce the number of networks required but even if that does not happen, you can have up to 16 networks which will support about 16000 channels.

When you add a cosmic color device to your sequence, one of the questions is what network to place it on. So you place it on a different network. In the Network Preferences window (Edit-> Preferences -> Network Preferences ... you setup the preferences of your new network...(i.e. you set the comm port for the USB adapter)

Dan

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LightORamaDan wrote:

When you add a cosmic color device to your sequence, one of the questions is what network to place it on. So you place it on a different network. In the Network Preferences window (Edit-> Preferences -> Network Preferences ... you setup the preferences of your new network...(i.e. you set the comm port for the USB adapter)

Dan

Thanks Dan...

Another Question then...are the number of your networks limited to the number of USB ports your PC might have, assuming that each USB adapter needs to plug into a USB port? Or would one of those USB Hubs work if you required/wanted many networks?

I'm looking at perhaps getting 20 100ct CCB's so would like to know what requirements I am looking at.

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jimswinder wrote:

LightORamaDan wrote:
When you add a cosmic color device to your sequence, one of the questions is what network to place it on. So you place it on a different network. In the Network Preferences window (Edit-> Preferences -> Network Preferences ... you setup the preferences of your new network...(i.e. you set the comm port for the USB adapter)

Dan

Thanks Dan...

Another Question then...are the number of your networks limited to the number of USB ports your PC might have, assuming that each USB adapter needs to plug into a USB port? Or would one of those USB Hubs work if you required/wanted many networks?

I'm looking at perhaps getting 20 100ct CCB's so would like to know what requirements I am looking at.


You can get USB Hubs (usually 4 ports) and use them to expand beyond what is connected to the PC.

Also later this year we will have other network devices available that will help with multiple networks.

Dan

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Guest Don Gillespie

LightORamaDan wrote:


Don,

This is a fundumental miss-understanding that many people have.

You do not need ANY traditional LOR controllers to run CCRs. A CCR comes with a miniature 150 channel controller. So a person could purchase a CCR and a Generic Starter Package (with adapter and basic software) and they are ready to go.

To control a CCR ribbon, you need the controller that comes with it. That controller give you full control (150 channels) of the ribbon so you certainly have independent control of it.

The CCR controller daisy chains into a LOR network just like any traditional LOR controller. It has two CAT5 connectors to facilitate placement in the daisy chain.

-----

Now the real question about supporting CCRs is the number of channels. For example 10 CCRs will have 1500 channels. That is pushing a LOR network to or beyond its limits. A LOR network will support 1500 channels with slow paced action but not fast stuff. So a limit of 6 CCRs per LOR network is practical.

Dan


So in reality I could get 6 CCRs which in therory gives me 96 feet of CCR length and still use my 7 controllers or I could if I am understanding this right use 10 CCRs but with a different network and if thats the case what networks would you use (as you can tell this is new to me) not real sure about the networks to clarify all the LOR controllers I am using are they considered a network?

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Don Gillespie wrote:

LightORamaDan wrote:

[snip] Dan


So in reality I could get 6 CCRs which in therory gives me 96 feet of CCR length and still use my 7 controllers or I could if I am understanding this right use 10 CCRs but with a different network and if thats the case what networks would you use (as you can tell this is new to me) not real sure about the networks to clarify all the LOR controllers I am using are they considered a network?


Don,

When you get a chance, with the Sequence Editor, open any of your sequences and then left lick on the first channel name. That will open a window with information about that channel. You will see that it will have the Network: set to Regular. That will be the case for all of your channels. They will all be set to the Regular channel.

You will see that there is a drop down for network and you can assign that channel to a different network. Also when you add a device you can pick a network (you always just let it default to "Regular" ).

Now if you click Edit->Preferences->Network Preferences you will see that the Regular Network is set to CommX which is the com port you use to attach to the USB adapter you are using. You will also notice that there is a "AUX A" thru "AUX O" network. For each of those networks you can assign a CommX which will be the Comm Port for the USB adapter for that network. Everything that is assigned AUX A will be daisy chained off from the AUX A USB adapter. Everything on the "Regular" network will be daisy chained from the Regular USB adapter.

Take a look at things...

Dan

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Guest Don Gillespie

LightORamaDan wrote


Don,

When you get a chance, with the Sequence Editor, open any of your sequences and then left lick on the first channel name. That will open a window with information about that channel. You will see that it will have the Network: set to Regular. That will be the case for all of your channels. They will all be set to the Regular channel. Ok I see that now

You will see that there is a drop down for network and you can assign that channel to a different network. Also when you add a device you can pick a network (you always just let it default to "Regular" ).

Now if you click Edit->Preferences->Network Preferences you will see that the Regular Network is set to CommX which is the com port you use to attach to the USB adapter you are using. You will also notice that there is a "AUX A" thru "AUX O" network. For each of those networks you can assign a CommX which will be the Comm Port for the USB adapter for that network. Everything that is assigned AUX A will be daisy chained off from the AUX A USB adapter. Everything on the "Regular" network will be daisy chained from the Regular USB adapter. would the CCRs need a special USB adaptor for the computer? and obviously the CCRs would be on thier own network either AUX A thru to AUX O what ever I would choose, I just want to be sure how it works

Take a look at things... I have looked at this before but had no idea what it meant.


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Don Gillespie wrote:

LightORamaDan wrote

Don,

When you get a chance, with the Sequence Editor, open any of your sequences and then left lick on the first channel name. That will open a window with information about that channel. You will see that it will have the Network: set to Regular. That will be the case for all of your channels. They will all be set to the Regular channel. Ok I see that now

You will see that there is a drop down for network and you can assign that channel to a different network. Also when you add a device you can pick a network (you always just let it default to "Regular" ).

Now if you click Edit->Preferences->Network Preferences you will see that the Regular Network is set to CommX which is the com port you use to attach to the USB adapter you are using. You will also notice that there is a "AUX A" thru "AUX O" network. For each of those networks you can assign a CommX which will be the Comm Port for the USB adapter for that network. Everything that is assigned AUX A will be daisy chained off from the AUX A USB adapter. Everything on the "Regular" network will be daisy chained from the Regular USB adapter. would the CCRs need a special USB adaptor for the computer? and obviously the CCRs would be on thier own network either AUX A thru to AUX O what ever I would choose, I just want to be sure how it works

Take a look at things... I have looked at this before but had no idea what it meant.




Hi,

Nothing special about the USB adapter used. Each network needs a serial or USB adapter assigned to it. You could for example (and there is no reason to do this!) you could for example move all the channels in your sequences to Network AUX A... Then set AUX A to point to your current USB adapter and things would work fine.

Dan

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Guest Don Gillespie

LightORamaDan wrote:

Hi,

Nothing special about the USB adapter used. Each network needs a serial or USB adapter assigned to it. You could for example (and there is no reason to do this!) you could for example move all the channels in your sequences to Network AUX A... Then set AUX A to point to your current USB adapter and things would work fine.

Dan




so are you saying I can change my network and then transfer all my LOR sequences to that network and use the CCRs with the new network

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Don Gillespie wrote:

Geoff Harvey wrote:
Don Gillespie wrote:
ok if I understand this correctly you can cat5 as many units as you want as long as each CCR has its own power supply or controller is this correct I am not interested in cutting the CCR just how many can you cat5 together


You can add as many CCRs as the LOR network supports, each with its own controller and controller address. Each CCR and address will add 157 channels to your list in the sequence editor - (50 RGB channels + 7 macro channels).

If you want several CCRs to behave identically, then you can give them the same address. This reduces the channel count in the editor. Last year I ran 3 pairs (each with 2 CCRs joined ene to end) from the same address and this worked well for an outline of my eaves.

Regards Geoff



Thanks Geoff, my memory is really good, my house and your house are identical the way the eaves are, so that was the answer I was looking for, when you say you joined them end for end how do you do that is it like a rope light that you can screw them together or is there a special way to do this?


Don

At present, joining CCRs requires cutting wires, opening the end of the first unit and soldering. This probably voids the CCR warranty. I had been hoping that CCRs might be sold with easy end connectors, but it is more complex than just joining two or more ribbons because of the need to add a new power source for each ribbon. (see http://lightorama.mywowbb.com/forum89/22431.html )

Be aware that every time you add a new CCR (or CCB) controller with independent control, you will add 157 channels to the sequence. The ribbons can be dynamically reconfigured in the sequence editor to behave as a single RGB channel, (or 2,5,10,16,17, 25 or 50). This limits the channels that are active at that time, but all 157 (or 50 RGB + 7) channels are still present for each ribbon controller.

If you want to simply use CCRs to outline windows, eaves etc and allow colour changes on the whole length - ie without the need to provide pattern or colour changes along the length of a ribbon(s), then there are cheaper options for ribbons where the whole ribbon is controlled as a single RGB channel using only 3 channels from a DC control board. eg http://cgi.ebay.com.au/5M-SMD-5050-RGB-Waterproof-150-LED-Strip-IR-Remote-/330441834079?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cefde3e5f I have not yet tried any of these products, however I have just purchased a number of 0.5 m rigid strips which I plan to use as spinners. There are a wide variety of strips available, but most will require some adaption for use as Christmas lights. Just do an eBay search for "RGB LED Strips"

Regards Geoff

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Guest Don Gillespie

Geoff Harvey wrote:

Don Gillespie wrote:
Geoff Harvey wrote:
Don Gillespie wrote:
ok if I understand this correctly you can cat5 as many units as you want as long as each CCR has its own power supply or controller is this correct I am not interested in cutting the CCR just how many can you cat5 together


You can add as many CCRs as the LOR network supports, each with its own controller and controller address. Each CCR and address will add 157 channels to your list in the sequence editor - (50 RGB channels + 7 macro channels).

If you want several CCRs to behave identically, then you can give them the same address. This reduces the channel count in the editor. Last year I ran 3 pairs (each with 2 CCRs joined ene to end) from the same address and this worked well for an outline of my eaves.

Regards Geoff



Thanks Geoff, my memory is really good, my house and your house are identical the way the eaves are, so that was the answer I was looking for, when you say you joined them end for end how do you do that is it like a rope light that you can screw them together or is there a special way to do this?


Don

At present, joining CCRs requires cutting wires, opening the end of the first unit and soldering. This probably voids the CCR warranty. I had been hoping that CCRs might be sold with easy end connectors, but it is more complex than just joining two or more ribbons because of the need to add a new power source for each ribbon. (see http://lightorama.mywowbb.com/forum89/22431.html )

Be aware that every time you add a new CCR (or CCB) controller with independent control, you will add 157 channels to the sequence. The ribbons can be dynamically reconfigured in the sequence editor to behave as a single RGB channel, (or 2,5,10,16,17, 25 or 50). This limits the channels that are active at that time, but all 157 (or 50 RGB + 7) channels are still present for each ribbon controller.

If you want to simply use CCRs to outline windows, eaves etc and allow colour changes on the whole length - ie without the need to provide pattern or colour changes along the length of a ribbon(s), then there are cheaper options for ribbons where the whole ribbon is controlled as a single RGB channel using only 3 channels from a DC control board. eg http://cgi.ebay.com.au/5M-SMD-5050-RGB-Waterproof-150-LED-Strip-IR-Remote-/330441834079?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cefde3e5f I have not yet tried any of these products, however I have just purchased a number of 0.5 m rigid strips which I plan to use as spinners. There are a wide variety of strips available, but most will require some adaption for use as Christmas lights. Just do an eBay search for "RGB LED Strips"

Regards Geoff

Thanks Geoff my idea is to outline the eaves of my house and garage I also want my trees to change color also so there will be a lot of purchases going on before I am ready for this years event. the CCRs will go nicley with my house, however I am still up in the air for the trees, propably going to go with the smaller leds for the trees and incorperate all three colors, this means I would use more LOR controllers but if I want this to look spectacular then thats the way to go.

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Geoff Harvey wrote:

Don Gillespie wrote:
ok if I understand this correctly you can cat5 as many units as you want as long as each CCR has its own power supply or controller is this correct I am not interested in cutting the CCR just how many can you cat5 together


You can add as many CCRs as the LOR network supports, each with its own controller and controller address. Each CCR and address will add 157 channels to your list in the sequence editor - (50 RGB channels + 7 macro channels).

If you want several CCRs to behave identically, then you can give them the same address. This reduces the channel count in the editor. Last year I ran 3 pairs (each with 2 CCRs joined ene to end) from the same address and this worked well for an outline of my eaves.

Regards  Geoff


I have a rather complicated question. I'll post a pic of my house so you can kinda see what I'm talking about. I'm new to CCRs and I'm adding them to my two rooflines, top and bottom. I want to use a chase effect starting at the top of my 2-car garage tip, and one going to the left, the other going to the right. I know I'll have to terminate the CCRs at the top and have them on different channels, but is there a way to macro them so that they can chase as if there is one string of them so it's not obvious there are multiple different CCRs ? My lower roof above the garages, and above the porch will need about 6 CCRs.

Attached files 299767=16525-IMAG0602.jpg

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Hi
If I understand correctly, you want to create chase and other effects using CCRs, with the effects being mirrored on either side of the roof peak above the central garage. This is similar to what I have done with CCRs on my upper roofline where I mirror effects on each house frontage either side of the corner near the megatree.

I joined 2 pairs of CCRs to make a 10m length for each frontage. See technical details in http://forums.lightorama.com/forum89/22431.html . Joining requires baring the end of the first CCR and soldering joiner wires (and adding in another PSU). When CCRs are joined this way, there is only 1 controller used for the joined CCRs and it must be configured in the hardware utility to indicate how many CCRs are joined in series. Joining does reduce the resolution, ie with mine a pixel is now 6 LEDs instead of 3 LEDs in the standard CCR configuration.

For your application, it would be possible to join 3 CCRs for each side of your roof peak. If you then run these 2 lots of 3 joined CCRs with the start point as the roof peak, you could run them with just 2 controllers on the same address so programming will only require programming 1 CCR in the sequence editor. Macros still work with joined CCRs.

I've been running mine for 2 seasons without problems.
Hope this helps - Geoff

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Geoff Harvey wrote:

Hi
If I understand correctly, you want to create chase and other effects using CCRs, with the effects being mirrored on either side of the roof peak above the central garage. This is similar to what I have done with CCRs on my upper roofline where I mirror effects on each house frontage either side of the corner near the megatree.

I joined 2 pairs of CCRs to make a 10m length for each frontage. See technical details in http://forums.lightorama.com/forum89/22431.html . Joining requires baring the end of the first CCR and soldering joiner wires (and adding in another PSU). When CCRs are joined this way, there is only 1 controller used for the joined CCRs and it must be configured in the hardware utility to indicate how many CCRs are joined in series. Joining does reduce the resolution, ie with mine a pixel is now 6 LEDs instead of 3 LEDs in the standard CCR configuration.

For your application, it would be possible to join 3 CCRs for each side of your roof peak. If you then run these 2 lots of 3 joined CCRs with the start point as the roof peak, you could run them with just 2 controllers on the same address so programming will only require programming 1 CCR in the sequence editor. Macros still work with joined CCRs.

I've been running mine for 2 seasons without problems.
Hope this helps - Geoff


I haven't measured the exact dimensions of my roof to see where the breaks are. I kinda don't want to cut my CCRs up, is there another way of doing it so that programming isn't such a nightmare ?

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