Midi Files

[shfr26]

Was reading another thread about midi files, and the help file. Does anyone use the midi tool and if so can you suggest a mp3 to midi converter program? Any down side in using a midi file ?

Thanks.

[bob]

I'm not sure if there are any MP3-to-MIDI converters - it strikes me as a very difficult problem to solve. But, if there are, they're definitely fundamentally different than (for example) MP3-to-WAV converters, in important ways.

MIDI is not just a different file format. It's a totally different concept. To illustrate the difference, you can perhaps think of an MP3 as being a recording of an orchestral performance, whereas a MIDI file is more like the sheet music that the musicians used.

You can use the instructions on the sheet music to make another performance that's kind of like the performance that that orchestra made, but it won't be the same. Sheet music is very, very basic instructions, describing the core of the song, while an actual recording is a chaotic mass of sound waves that contain far more details and nuances and so forth than is represented in the sheet music.

So, even if there is an MP3-to-MIDI converter, and even if it works well, when you play the MIDI file back, it won't sound like your MP3. Maybe there will be a guitar in there that plays mostly the same notes as the real guitar in the recording, but it won't sound like that same guitar, and it probably won't have all the nuances of the real thing either.

And, importantly, you're not going to hear a singer; perhaps there will be some instrument that plays mostly the same notes as the singer sings, but it won't be a singer, let alone the singer from the recording, and you won't hear lyrics or anything.

Perhaps what I'm trying to get across would be clearer if you were to listen to some MIDI files, so here are a bunch of them:

http://www.mididb.com/

With all that said, MIDI files definitely have advantages, since the MIDI Wizard can be used to do some things that are (in my opinion) really pretty neat. But they definitely also have drawbacks.

[shfr26]

Thank you for your reply. I now see the difference, and I did play with the midi tool and saw some really cool things! Will there ever be a mp3 tool like the midi tool ?? That would be awesome!

[bob]

What might be neat, though, assuming that there is such a thing as an MP3-to-MIDI converter, and furthermore assuming that it works well, would be to create a MIDI file based on an MP3 file, then create a sequence based on the MIDI file (using the MIDI Wizard), and then change the sequence to use the MP3 file instead.

But, again, I don't know if there is such a converter, and even if there is, I don't know that it would work well enough to make this feasible.

[bob]

shfr26 wrote:

Thank you for your reply. I now see the difference, and I did play with the midi tool and saw some really cool things! Will there ever be a mp3 tool like the midi tool ?? That would be awesome!

I agree, that would be awesome. But, again, it strikes me as a very difficult problem to solve - algorithmically going from a recording to sheet music. I'll think about it, but I don't know if it's at all feasible.

[shfr26]

bob wrote:

, assuming that there is such a thing as an MP3-to-MIDI converter, and furthermore assuming that it works well, would be to create a MIDI file based on an MP3 file, then create a sequence based on the MIDI file (using the MIDI Wizard), and then change the sequence to use the MP3 file instead.

But, again, I don't know if there is such a converter, and even if there is, I don't know that it would work well enough to make this feasible.

I did do a search and found several from free to a couple hundred dollars. That does not mean that the will work well, as you stated. Again Sir, thank you for your reply in a very timely matter. This company is so customer friendly that "ALL" other company's should strive for the same!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

I have converted many MIDi files to MP3, although I have tried several conversion type programs, NONE have worked very well in the conversions they did.

So what I do is use an MP3/WAV music editor that supports a "RECORD" function, I then load the MIDi file into a seperate player and load the MP3 editing software, I press record on the editor, then play the MIDi file. Once the MIDi file has played, I stop the recording process, then I do have to go and EDIT the recording to remove excess silence from the beginning and/or end of the file, once I am satisfied with the end result, I save the recording as an MP3 128k or 192k CBR (Constant Bit Rate) file, don't use VBR (Variable Bit Rate) as these don't always work well, especially if you also use the DC-MP3 Showtime Director, CBR's work much better and more reliably.

I don't know much about Audacity as I don't use that, but if it supports a record option, you may be able to use it to convert your MIDi files as outlined above.

I use two commercial programs that came with my Video Editing software (Magix Music Editor) and with a CD/DVD Burner, NERO WAVE EDITOR, which is limited to how many times (10 I think) you can save as an MP3, so I use it to convert to PCM-WAV format, then use the Magix software to convert the WAV to MP3 or use a free program that will convert a WAV (Stereo) into an MP3 file. I use a program called Switch for those conversions, Switch also allows me to convert ACC, WAV, MP3, OGG, WMA and a lot of other audio file formats.

You can find Switch here:

http://www.nch.com.au/switch/index.html

You may also need to select an option from the properties of your sound cards recording options. On my set up I go to the Recording Options and select the Stereo Mixer, set the recording volume level low, about 1/4 of the way up on the slider and get very good results. But in the editor software, I can also change the volume if it's too high.

This is and has been the best option I have found that works for converting my MIDi files to work with the LOR Sequencer and in my shows.

Yes, it's a bit of work, but the end results have been far superior to any converter I have used. So I don't bother with MIDi converter software any longer.

Good luck on converting your MIDi files.



Maybe I should just start a service of converting MIDi files for folks for a small fee if they can't do it, or just can't figure it all out. It really sounds more complex than it really is.

[bob]

Well, I think the question is converting an MP3 to a MIDI, not vice versa.

[Guest guest]

bob wrote:

Well, I think the question is converting an MP3 to a MIDI, not vice versa.

Whoops, my bad Bob. I thought they were attempting to convert MIDi files to MP3, not the other way around.

Don't know anything that would convert an MP3 to MIDi since MIDi is NOT a true music file, but actually data algorithyms made up to sound like music, and every MIDi file I've ever come across or created is also not stereo, they are mono so going from an MP3 stereo file to MIDi could be quite taxing I'd think. I've never tried converting an MP3 to a MIDi file using my method, but I have tried using converters that state they can do this, the end result of the MIDi file is usually very bad harmonics and sounds like running fingernails over a blackboard! At least that has how all the conversion software I've used has done.

But if you use an MP3 Showtime Director, it won't support MIDi files anyway.

One other note about MIDi is most are also a single track and is why they are easier to do things with in the LOR Tools Midi option, but like you had stated, those options due to the inherrent differences in the file types is not only not practical, but just could transpose from that format (MIDi) to any other audio format. At least not in my travels and I've been doing musical conversions for many, many years now.

[smeighan]

I have started protyping a module for the tool i am building
meighan.net/seqbuilder/index.php
to read midi files and create various 3d affects on mega-trees.

There are two software programs that i know of that convert mp3 to midi.

http://www.intelliscore.net/ ~$150
http://widisoft.com/english/products.html ~$200

Looking at the spectrum analyzer of a wave and trying to figure out notes and instrumentation is very hard. These programs do a pretty good job. I think i like the widisoft program better. I just need the midi file to be good enough to get the beat and the general melodies.

I am a semi-professional musician. I play the flute,piccolo, recorders in 4 orchestras. I also do music arrangements using Sibelius and Music Notation.

rgbsb is written in php. I plan on using these php classes for parsing midi files
http://valentin.dasdeck.com/midi/

I am currently working on getting the xml file outputs for LOR/LSP and Vixen for rgbsb before i tackle this new project.

I do think i will have a midi file parser as part of rgbsb by this summer.

thanks
sean

[smeighan]

BTW, someone has gone to the work of typing in the score for one TSO song
http://www.westnet.com/Holiday/midi/sarajevo.mid

I have done this myself. Listen to a song, isolate the melody. Enter each track into the midi editor (I use Siebelius). Play, repeat, edit. If you do it well, the midi file should sound near to what the original mp3 sounded like. It also as the ability to now print out the music score.

Here is another
http://midi.homemusician.net/t/the_trans-siberian_orchestra/the_requiem_(the_fifth).html

You won't see very many of these since it is a HUGE amount of work to reverse engineer a song back to its original tracks.

thanks
sean