Ring a Bell

[Max-Paul]

What you have described is all true Katrina of a manually operated bell. Might of fact look to the right of the bell you have put a picture up of just now. There is an eyelet and a pivot point with a hammer on the other side. So it could be slowly swung from side to side or a rope yanked for rapid ringing.

But the automated bells that I spoke of I am sure it has some kind of hammer or striker that is operated off of a solenoid as I was trying to describe in my last post.

[rstately]

Ok, I keep thinking about this, and I wanted to make sure it could work.
so I rigged up something with the servodog and It does work!
You still need to test it with the real bell, but I could hit this pipe really hard.

I could rig it to a door bell button, so people wouldn't have to knock.

[Katrina]

Awesome! Absolutely awesome.
So you have the Showtime software, and the adapter, and then is that card the servodog? The box is the DC power, because the servo has to have its own power, right? And then the sail arm thingy in metal square tubing -- where is the servo located?

I came across this link, most of which I don't understand. One of the comments on it suggests a piano hammer type action, which might be good as far as rebounding off the bell. Besides, I have a piano action down in the basement I could copy from and actually know a little bit about it.
http://forums.makezine.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=2058

But check out this gal's carillon! She's using servos and wooden balls on springs.

Endure the first part of the song -- the next is worth it!

There is a carillon at Southwest Missouri State University, an hour from where I live. I think I'll hunt down their hunchback and see what they use.
Which makes me think -- wouldn't it be cute to set up a hunchback doll with the servo moving his arm to hit the bell? And with just a little costume change he'd work for Halloween. Sorry, turned all girly on you.

[rstately]

Ok, I thought you already had LOR set up, but yes you need the software, the adapter, and the usb cable that has the ferrite filters on it.
http://store.lightorama.com/usbcausewius.html.
I think that comes with the starter package. The Servodog, The DC power supply,The one here is 3 amps. They suggest you use a Y adapter for the big 1/4 scale servo, and run one set to the power supply,and the other to the controller, but since I wasn't using its full power, I just ran it off the servodog.
If you can measure the clapper on the bell, I will try and set this up so you can zip tie it to the clapper. Here are some pix,

Attached files

[rstately]

Sorry,
I just looked at my post.
I don't need the "A" measurement.
Just the "C" measurement (how far apart are your balls?)
And the "B" measurement (how far your balls are hanging down.)

I didn't want to come across as inappropriate!

Also, a lot of halloween witches are run with wind shield wiper motors.
They are cheap, but they are not easy to time accurately, there is a delay when the start and stop.

[Katrina]

I'll get a measurement this afternoon or tomorrow.

This is a city park project. We haven't purchased anything yet. I'm kind of in charge of design, and I guess learning how all this stuff works, and (hopefully) the park board members will be my slaves to hang lights.
We're trying to get an idea of what we want to buy. We have some lights already, of course, about 60% of which are LEDs. We'll probably end up doing a fairly mediocre show this Christmas, because we are all newbies to this, but I would like to have at least one feature that will make visitors want to come back next year.
We'll probably get the LOR1602MP3, probably use the two leads so we can go with two 20 amp circuits. The Showtime software that comes with it has a feature that automatically sets the lights to music (right?) and then the Wizards of Winter and one other TSO song we can get free.
I am imagining an orchestral version of "I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day" with a lead-in of the church bell … Ring 2 3 4, Ring 2 3 4, Ring 2 3 4 (birds eye) Ring 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then into "I Heard the Bells." And then we might use it during "Carol of the Bells". It will be very interactive, because a bell really gets in your gut. The city has a Christmas extravaganza on the square after the parade which will be our opening show.
But if I get the servodog, then I've got some extra circuits for lights, right? Then next year I suspect we can go with the hobby cards, because I think we have enough people with skills to go that route.
Oh, our budget this year is $1200. That has to cover the equipment and any more lights we buy. And I want to make the mini trees, because they seem to be very serviceable in a show.
Well, I'm running on, aren't I.
I'll get those measurements. Do you need the weight? That would be harder to get but I might swing it.
And they are Clappers, just in case you find yourself talking to a guy about them.

[shfr26]

Katrina wrote:

The Showtime software that comes with it has a feature that automatically sets the lights to music (right?) and then the Wizards of Winter and one other TSO song we can get free.

The software does not do that. You can buy sequences and music that you don't have to program. That is unless I'm reading your question wrong. With the premade sequences you will still have to adapt it to your setup.

[rstately]

shfr26 wrote:

Katrina wrote:

 The Showtime software that comes with it has a feature that automatically sets the lights to music (right?) and then the Wizards of Winter and one other TSO song we can get free.

The software does not do that.  You can buy sequences and music that you don't have to program.  That is unless I'm reading your question wrong. With the premade sequences you will still have to adapt it to your setup.

No, the software does not automatically set the lights to music.
You could buy pre made sequences like Pete says, then you would still have to program the servo to ring the bell when you want.
About using up channels, the servo Dog has 8 servo channels. That does not use up channels from your 16 channel controller. You just plug the Servo Dog into the 1602 mp3 with a cat5 cable, creating a network. Also with the 1602 mp3 you can load the show on an SD card and it will run the show without your laptop.
You can run the Servo Dog, and Servo, with a battery like they use for R/C cars. Then you would only need a cat 5 cable to run up into the bell.

As far as music and sequencing, It takes a lot of time. If you don't have time,
there are a lot of people that you could give your layout, and number and type of controllers to, and they will sequence the songs you want for you.
I've never done that, but they seem to be reasonably priced?
Then you would only have to set the unit ID on the Servo Dog, plug in the lights, and Servo set up, and Play the show. Then have time to learn to do it yourself?
About the measurements, I don't need the weight of the clapper, My Idea is to mount the servo with the arm in the video, to the clapper. and not use the real clapper? Is that OK, or is it important to see the real clapper move?

[Katrina]

I thought I had read that the Showtime Suite II would do an automatic display. But when you start out in complete ignorance and try to make sense of all the User Manuals and forums and LOR support information and read it late at night before you go to bed, I guess it's possible to misinterpret, misunderstand and even dream about something that doesn't exist.
Oh, well.
I had found a website that would custom program songs for about $20 for a 2 1/2 minute song. Actually, I don't think that will be the hard part for me. I could be wrong. Can't do a thing with it until I know how many channels and lights we're going to have.
I think someone should write a book.

Oh, I forgot. No, I don't think it's important for the original clapper to move.

[Michael Rosanske]

After reading the posts here, it got me looking on youtube at bells and ran across this video. Looks like a good way to ring a bell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fghJgMZunv0

[lightzilla]

I thought that Scary Terry might have an idea on ringing a bell on his website, but he doesn't.

He has great ideas nonetheless.

[LightORamaJohn]

Here's a guy that sells a bell ringer setup. It isn't designed for outdoors, but it demonstrates the concept: http://churchbellministry.com/

Here's a site that has some very high power (and high cost) solenoids and controls: http://www.magneticsensorsystems.com/ You'd have to be sure their controls work at all temperatures and that you could weatherproof the solenoids. You could also use a DC board where you gang many channels to handle the current.

I would actually look at using car starter solenoids. These are fairly high power, could be ganged, are really cheap and probably a lot easier to weatherproof. Since the ringing is not continuous and being 12 vdc devices, you could run the DC board and solenoid ringer from a gel cell battery rather than having a very high current power supply. There would just need to be a small electronic charger attached all the time.

[Katrina]

Sorry it took me so long to get this.
I measured the B measurement from the bolt. Can you see it in the picture?
It's 19 1/2 inches. The C measurement is 6 3/4 inches. Now, these are not terribly exact measurements -- I lay on the ground and stuck a tape measure up to the clapper. The "balls" are approx. 3 1/4 diameter and there is 3 inches clearance between them and the frame.

[Katrina]

Can you delete a post?

[Katrina]

LightORamaJohn wrote:

Here's a guy that sells a bell ringer setup. It isn't designed for outdoors, but it demonstrates the concept: http://churchbellministry.com/

Here's a site that has some very high power (and high cost) solenoids and controls: http://www.magneticsensorsystems.com/ You'd have to be sure their controls work at all temperatures and that you could weatherproof the solenoids. You could also use a DC board where you gang many channels to handle the current.

I would actually look at using car starter solenoids. These are fairly high power, could be ganged, are really cheap and probably a lot easier to weatherproof. Since the ringing is not continuous and being 12 vdc devices, you could run the DC board and solenoid ringer from a gel cell battery rather than having a very high current power supply. There would just need to be a small electronic charger attached all the time.

Thanks! Great info. I could get a car solenoid pretty easily.
Katrina

[rstately]

OK, I can weld straps across the servo thing I made so you can zip tie it to the clapper, and send it to you? or do you want to try the car starter solenoid, and DC card Idea?
It is no problem for me, I only made it to test and see if it would work?
I think to test it for timing, you would have to set it up with the bell, and see if it keeps up with the timing of the song.

I don't know how to gang wire the solenoid to the DC card? but I'm sure someone here does?
either way just let me know,

Ron

[Max-Paul]

Ok, when Dan suggested that if you needed more current than a single output of the DC card could handle, he as talking about this example.

Ok pulling numbers out of thin air to just make an example. Lets say that a single DC card output was rated for 1 amp. But the solenoid needs 4 amps to operate. You would wire the "-" terminal from channels 1 - 4 together, and the "+" terminals for 1 - 4 together also. This is also called in "Parallel" So, now you would program channels 1 - 4 to all come on at the same time and go off at the same time. This will now allow you to control a device that is drawing 4 times the current that a single channel (output) could handle by it's self. Thus we have ganged 4 outputs into one output.

Katrina, I do not know you or your knowledge base. But I suggest you work closely with a person that has both electrical and electronic knowledge. This person will be a great asset to your project. Electricity is a wonderful thing, till you abuse it. Then it will come back and bite you hard as either a shock or as a fire.

[Katrina]

Wonderful explanation! Thank you. Much of the technical detail still goes over my head. I have some electrical experience. My dad is an electrician and he taught me as we rewired my house a few (10?) years ago (no more knob and tubing). I don't have an electronics guy in the family, but since this is actually a city park project, I am hoping we can find someone with electronics knowledge. I'm the hunter/gatherer of information, and necessarily have to learn quite a bit as I go along.
But again, thank you for the clear and detailed explanation. I don't feel like it's fair to ask everyone who is so kind to help to stop and teach me along the way! So I keep open a Google page and hunt up information and just generally try to keep up.

[rstately]

Max-Paul wrote:

Katrina, I do not know you or your knowledge base. But I suggest you work closely with a person that has both electrical and electronic knowledge, and good looking. This person will be a great asset to your project. Electricity is a wonderful thing, till you abuse it. Then it will come back and bite you hard as either a shock or as a fire.

Yes,
I was thinking, If only there was some electrical genius, that lived within a couple hours of you (like Warrenton) They could stop by, and help you get started? Oh well...

[Katrina]

On Mondays and Tuesdays we make three newspapers (as in three different publications.) Unlike some of you, apparently, I have a day job that requires my attention. So I missed the part about good looking and a great asset to my project. And the Missouri location. But I began to suspect I ought to look for more when rstately (do you have a name?) suggested Warrenton.
Warrenton is 259 miles, 4 1/2 hours away. Close when you compare it to California but a long way in Missouri miles. But southwest Missouri is lovely this time of year (if you are big on double digit humidity.)
Hey! You changed his post in the quote! (Or his quote in the post.) Is that legal? I didn't miss anything! You made it read different.