Joining CCRs End to End

[Geoff Harvey]

Dan

This year I want to join 2 pairs of CCRs end to end to make 2 ribbons each 10m (32') long. The CCR manual indicates this is possible, but that the extension ribbons are not yet available. The manual also indicates that an additional 12V power supply needs to be connected at each ribbon junction because of the current capacity of the tracks on the CCR circuit board. I presume that joining two ribbons simply requires joining the four tracks at the end of the first ribbon to the corresponding four tracks at the beginning of the second ribbon and adding an additionsl 12V power supply to the outer tracks (with the correct polarity). I have 2 options for adding the power

1. 
   
2. Use a single high capacity 12V DC supply to feed all the ribbons - such as http://cgi.ebay.com.au/12V-DC-29A-350W-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-New-/390201628139?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad9d455eb
   
3. or use each of the individual 4A supplies supplied with the CCRs, 1 at the start of each ribbon.

I have 3 queries arising from these options:

1. 
   
2. What is the voltage tolerance on the 12V supply to the CCRs. (I note on the 1 ribbon I have that the adaptor output reads 12.4V at no load, but drops to 12.2V at about half load (1.8A)). Would a 13V supply overload the CCR?
   
3. The power supply lead to the CCR has a cylindrical lump in the lead which I assume is an RF filter. Would this or something similar be required at each CCR if all CCRs were supplied from a single power supply?
   
4. If I were to use the individual 4A supplies which I assume are fully floating, would any common connection (-ve or +ve) be required between the supplies to maintain a common reference voltage along the ribbons?

I look forward to advice from LOR or anybody who has had experirnces in joining CCRs.

Regards Geoff

[LightORamaJohn]

The voltage must not vary more than +-0.5v from 12vdc.

The filter in the power cable is not required, just that the supply be stable.

If you place the ribbon LED side up with the data/power wires coming in on the left, the connections from the top are +12, D, C & -. Some of the ribbon cut points are marked +12v, D, C & -, so you can confirm this. D, C & - must be connected through and +12v must NOT be connected through when adding additonal ribbons to the far end. This is also true if you parallel connect ribbons at the controller end.

Neither the ribbon nor the controller can carry the current to support extension ribbons. You must connect an additional power supply (or wires from your common power supply) to +12 & - at the beginning of each additional ribbon.

[Geoff Harvey]

John, Thank you for your comprehensive reply. It has answered all my queries, but has raised a new question/option in relation to the setup I was planning for this year.

LightORamaJohn wrote:

Some of the ribbon cut points are marked +12v, D, C & -, so you can confirm this. D, C & - must be connected through and +12v must NOT be connected through when adding additonal ribbons to the far end. This is also true if you parallel connect ribbons at the controller end.

Neither the ribbon nor the controller can carry the current to support extension ribbons. You must connect an additional power supply (or wires from your common power supply) to +12 & - at the beginning of each additional ribbon.

I live on a corner block. For many of my display items, I wire pairs of elements to perform the same patterns on each street frontage. I had planned to install 2 extended CCRs, one on each street frontage and give each of the controllers the SAME address so that they would produce the same patterns. Your reply indicates that I could parallel the two extended ribbons from just 1 controller provided that a separate 12V+/- power connection was made to the second ribbon.

Please advise whether one of these options would be preferred over the other, (ie paralleling 2 ribbons from a single controller vs 2 separate controllers with the same address and setup.) Or would both options work equally satisfactorily.

Look forward to your reply

Regards Geoff

[LightORamaJohn]

Geoff Harvey wrote:

...Your reply indicates that I could parallel the two extended ribbons from just 1 controller provided that a separate 12V+/- power connection was made to the second ribbon.

Please advise whether one of these options would be preferred over the other, (ie paralleling 2 ribbons from a single controller vs 2 separate controllers with the same address and setup.) Or would both options work equally satisfactorily.

The data & clock signals from the controller to the ribbon are not differential, so the distance is very limited. It would have to be no more than 15' for reliable operation at all temperatures. Plus, although I have not tried it, I would imagine that parallel connections from the controller would limit the distance even more. The controller and power supply are about 30% of the cost the CCR system -- perhaps the flexibility of placement and programming override the savings.

[bretk]

Found this old post and had a couple questions. First did you have a common - between the strips? Second, did you need to modify the settings in the hardware editor or sequence editor when you lengthened them or did the pixel resolution automatically shift from one to two pixels per original pixel?

[Geoff Harvey]

bretk wrote:

Found this old post and had a couple questions. First did you have a common - between the strips? Second, did you need to modify the settings in the hardware editor or sequence editor when you lengthened them or did the pixel resolution automatically shift from one to two pixels per original pixel?

Hi Bret

I used 6 CCRs joined as 3 pairs - each pair consisted of 2 ribbons end to end. I joined the +12V, D & C connections between ribbons, but not the -ve. I ended up using the CCR PSUs that came with my ribbons to inject power at the join point. The 2nd PSU was connected to the +ve common and the -ve for the second ribbon.

Each pair of ribbons then had 1 controller and 2 PSUs. You need to set the number of ribbons connected end to end in the hardware utility - in my case 2. This changes the ribbon resolution so that each pixel is 6 LEDs instead of 3 for a standard single ribbon. You then program the ribbon pairs in the sequence editor as a single ribbon (50 RGB pixels). The macro commands still work with the ribbon pairs.

For my setup - I then set all 3 pairs of ribbons to the same LOR address. This enabled me to achieve the sequence effects I wanted by only programming 1 ribbon. (This also reduces the network traffic.) My setup has now worked without problems for 2 seasons. My ribbons are fairly protected from weather and sun and I have left them in place between seasons.

Hope this helps - Geoff

[bretk]

Geoff,

Thanks! That's just what I was looking for. I had 2 ccr's used to make 4 arches this season, and am adding an additional ribbon onto the end of each to increase the arch count to 8. I think the resolution will still be fine at 12.5 pixels per arch, as most folks who use traditional arches use 8 sections per.

[Troy Mann]

Anyone have a picture or diagram on how you paired 2 CCRs with the same controller, but with 2 separate power supplies?

[Geoff Harvey]

Troy
I just followed the instructions outlined in post 2 from John. I cut the lead on controller 2 back to about 15", connected these wires to a terminal strip, and then used some of the cut wire to solder on to the D, C, -ve terminals at the end of CCR1.

I cut the output plug off the second power supply, used a multimeter to deternine the +ve/-ve wires and connected as per the diagram.

Hope this helps.

Geoff

Attached files

[WilliamS]

Didnt Eddy extend his with 6803 strips?

Also is the controller limited to 50 pixels, or can it control up to a universe as esentially its a DMX controller.

[Geoff Harvey]

William

I extended mine 2 years back before I knew of 6803s and DMX. Mine are set to work totally within the LOR environment. To use the extra length, the LOR Hardware utility is used to set up the number of CCRs connected end to end. For 2 ribbons, this reduces the physical resolution but maintains the number of available RGB channels at 50 for the combined ribbons. (ie logical pixel size goes from 3 bulbs for a single CCR to 6 bulbs when 2 CCRs are connected end to end.) Macros still work correctly on the extended CCRs,

I cannot comment on setting up or using the ribbons in a DMX mode, or on mixing CCRs with other digital RGB strip.

Regards Geoff

[Troy Mann]

Thank you Geoff

[bretk]

Here is a quick vid of a ray wu 6803 joined end to end to a ccr strip with power injection a la Geoff I am planning on mounting these inside 3/4 natural pex tubing for my 8 arches next year (2 ccr's and 2 6803's)

[bretk]

bretk wrote:

Here is a quick vid of a ray wu 6803 joined end to end to a ccr strip with power injection a la Geoff I am planning on mounting these inside 3/4 natural pex tubing for my 8 arches next year (2 ccr's and 2 6803's)

Oh crap, where's that edit? Here is the correct link

[WilliamS]

Geoff Harvey wrote:

William

I extended mine 2 years back before I knew of 6803s and DMX. Mine are set to work totally within the LOR environment. To use the extra length, the LOR Hardware utility is used to set up the number of CCRs connected end to end. For 2 ribbons, this reduces the physical resolution but maintains the number of available RGB channels at 50 for the combined ribbons. (ie logical pixel size goes from 3 bulbs for a single CCR to 6 bulbs when 2 CCRs are connected end to end.) Macros still work correctly on the extended CCRs,

I cannot comment on setting up or using the ribbons in a DMX mode, or on mixing CCRs with other digital RGB strip.

Regards Geoff

Very nice. Yours are spanning a huge area so I cant imagine the pixel size being an issue. Your videos speak for themselves your display is impressive. I forgot you can adjust the pixels with the CCR controller setup. Thank you.

[Kieren James]

_{Where there any issues when joining the two different types of strips? CCR's and 6803 from Rays?}

_Cheers!

[Kieren James]

_{Thanks for that info}

_{But it does raise the question being new to LED RGB}

_{How were you able to tell by looking at the strips if they are BRG or RGB?}

_cheers