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New to Dumb RGB World


Bigfrog 59

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I am wanting to add dumb RGB ribbons to my light display this year and I was wondering if there was a limit to the length of dumb RGB ribbons that I could have on a single channel on the CMB-24D deluxe card if I'm power injecting? ie. If I want to do a 100' run of dumb RGB ribbon on a single channel and I use a RGB amplifier with a 200 watt power supply every 32' is this possible? From what I'm understanding after reading multiple subjects on power injecting that if I use the additional RGB amplifier with a 200 watt power supply they will supply the power require to run the lights and the controller card basically transfers the data information? Is this correct or did I miss the boat completely? Also if this is the case would I be able to do this with the remaining channels? Advice and knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

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RGB dumb: wiring is Red+, Green+, Blue+, and neutral -. There is no power injection or data wire. Power injection and data are smart pixels. Controller has 2 30 amp inputs for a total of 720 watts at 12volt. I have been told you can go over this if you put heat sinks on the board and fan cool them. Why not just use another board and mirror the channels? Keep runs of DC wire as short as possible. I hope this helps.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

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I grabbed a couple of those also (1 has 8 floods :P  with it)

RGB Amlifiers! ,hadnt thought about that :unsure:

I am assuming 12V here

I have some ribbons, they take 4A/10M all white,  so that 200W supply would run ~3 @ 32' groups with a derate safety margin),

the chain limiting factor is the ribbon trace.. that limit is 10M (32') If the AMP can switch 8A or more, make  groups  in a T, 32' on each side  with the short string connected to the CMB and the end of that feeds the 3 T's  amp

:idea:  the CMB does not need to be at the far end of the chain:   SS-A-S-C-SS-A-SS

You used the term 'data' Don't confuse Smart and Dumb RGB SMART has a 'data' lineto the node.  Dumb: the controller handles the color current switching

CMB24D: It is all about AMPS that the MOSFETS need to sink.  You might stretch that limit a bit by adding extra Heatsinks (The local JAMECO sells 10 packs cheap) and a well ventilated enclosure.If you PUSH hard to the limit, MOSFET failures will be an issue.

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HVACR got the polarity backwards (for us Christmas lighting people). The common is positive voltage, and the individual colors are switched negative voltage. Note that you CAN find strips out there for sale that use a cannon negative, but they won't work with our controllers.
I've never used the RGB amplifiers, but as I understand them, your concept is OK. Note from a terminology point of view, it's not a single channel out of the CMB-24D, it's three channels (one for each color). That is sometimes referred to as a single RGB channel. But don't get the idea that you can run 24 individually controlled RGB strips from a single CMB-24D.
I somewhat agree with HVACR in that you might be better off to break up your 100 feet into smaller controllable sections. Unless your house is massive, a strip that long would look odd. Breaking it up would give you FAR more options in sequencing. For example, if you controlled each 5M strip separately, you could still sequence them all together for times when you want the entire roofline (for example) to be the same color, but allow the ability to control smaller sections when that would work better.


Sent from my phone using Tapatalk, so blame any typos on Android!

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9 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

I somewhat agree with HVACR in that you might be better off to break up your 100 feet into smaller controllable sections. Unless your house is massive, a strip that long would look odd. Breaking it up would give you FAR more options in sequencing. For example, if you controlled each 5M strip separately, you could still sequence them all together for times when you want the entire roofline (for example) to be the same color, but allow the ability to control smaller sections when that would work better.


Sent from my phone using Tapatalk, so blame any typos on Android!
 

Especially if you're using dumb RGBs, this would definitely be a better fit, since you can only control the whole strip at once. Smart RGBS would be the route to go if you wanted individual pixels and more control over the 100' span.

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1 hour ago, HVACR said:

RGB dumb: wiring is Red+, Green+, Blue+, and neutral -. There is no power injection or data wire. Power injection and data are smart pixels. Controller has 2 30 amp inputs for a total of 720 watts at 12volt. I have been told you can go over this if you put heat sinks on the board and fan cool them. Why not just use another board and mirror the channels? Keep runs of DC wire as short as possible. I hope this helps.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
 

Ummm, no. Red Green and Blue are negative, the Yellow, black, or whatever coo the manufacturer uses is the voltage wire. Last year i had 500 dumb nodes on one output, 175 feet, as long as you use amplifiers every 50 you will be fine. I was able to run an amp every 100, ,but this year will drop that to every 50. My fence line was also 300 nodes at 100 feet. I use renard, but all the dumb controllers use some form of mosfet, you can not put more then the mosfets allowed amperage or you will over heat the mosfet and burn it out, this is where the amplifiers come in, the have their own mosfets built in.

 

These Amplifiers will work for your needs, i am in the middle of designing a new amplifier that will be far Superior to anything that is on the market now. It will handle 100 nodes easy.

https://www.amazon.com/FAVOLCANO-Amplifier-Controller-multi-color-Flexible/dp/B014IBJZ8E/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1491755531&sr=8-7&keywords=rgb+amplifier

Edited by jerry72
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Thanks for the info folks, and thanks jerry72 I believe that was the answer I was looking for. So it would be possible to run  150' to 200' of dumb RGB strips on one channel as long as you use a amplifier and power supply every say 32' to 50'. These are the ones I bought on Amazon.

Amplifier.jpg

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I know you I've already got your mindset going down the dumb RGB Direction. 

I was in your shoes not long ago and I did the dumb RGB on my roof line and they were out there for only one season when I converted to smart pixels. So here I sit looking at boxes full of dumb RGB stuff that I spent all kinds of time money and effort on and it's a complete waste at this point. I'm reusing some of the stuff for Halloween but I kind of wish I didn't go down the dumb RGB Direction and just dove straight into the smart pixels. 

Believe it or not the smart pixels require less wires and simplified my setup. 

Just something to think about. 

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11 minutes ago, Ebuechner said:

I know you I've already got your mindset going down the dumb RGB Direction. 

I was in your shoes not long ago and I did the dumb RGB on my roof line and they were out there for only one season when I converted to smart pixels. So here I sit looking at boxes full of dumb RGB stuff that I spent all kinds of time money and effort on and it's a complete waste at this point. I'm reusing some of the stuff for Halloween but I kind of wish I didn't go down the dumb RGB Direction and just dove straight into the smart pixels. 

Believe it or not the smart pixels require less wires and simplified my setup. 

Just something to think about. 

Not everyone wants to make their shows complicated,  roof out line with dumb nodes looks very good, i have many many compliments on my show and i use 1500 dumb nodes. Some of us juts want a nice looking elegant show with out the hassle of having to program every single bulb.

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20 minutes ago, Bigfrog 59 said:

Thanks for the info folks, and thanks jerry72 I believe that was the answer I was looking for. So it would be possible to run  150' to 200' of dumb RGB strips on one channel as long as you use a amplifier and power supply every say 32' to 50'. These are the ones I bought on Amazon.

Amplifier.jpg

Those will work, just make sure ya seal them up in an enclosure.

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2 hours ago, Ebuechner said:

I know you I've already got your mindset going down the dumb RGB Direction. 

I was in your shoes not long ago and I did the dumb RGB on my roof line and they were out there for only one season when I converted to smart pixels. So here I sit looking at boxes full of dumb RGB stuff that I spent all kinds of time money and effort on and it's a complete waste at this point. I'm reusing some of the stuff for Halloween but I kind of wish I didn't go down the dumb RGB Direction and just dove straight into the smart pixels. 

Believe it or not the smart pixels require less wires and simplified my setup. 

Just something to think about. 

Any chance I can strike a deal and take some of the dumb RGB off your hands? PM me or email goldinglights@gmail.com -- I look forward to hearing from you.

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2 hours ago, Ebuechner said:

Believe it or not the smart pixels require less wires and simplified my setup. 

Same here.  One of the first things I installed that was LOR controlled, was 17 sections of warm white light rope.  Each section was on brick edging in front of one of my 17 roses.  A year or two later I changed that light rope with RGB strips.  I realized that it would take 51 channels so I would have to add three CMB-16D controllers (the CMB-24D did not exist at the time), and require a bundle of wire as big as my arm.  Ended up installing a SanDevices E6804 with 12 Volt WS2811 smart strips.  Each rose has about 27 inches of 48 RGB LEDs per inch which is 33 RGB LEDs in 11 addressable pixels.  I have them set up at groups of 11 pixels so that means each rose is treated as a single pixel.  The E6804 is in the middle, so one run has eight pixels and one has nine pixels.  Each run takes three wires.  Far easier to deal with than the bundle of wires the size of my arm.

 

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Being able a group sections together is great. I found out getting into it it wasn't much harder to sequence large groups of pixels versus a single AC element with the software available today. I am in no way pushing anybody this direction, just offering something to think about.  

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There are uses for smart and dumb pixels,  I plan on using dumb for my wire frame stuff. No need to make them smart pixels in my view. 

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Yes I agree, smart pixels are very cool and some of the members here have created some amazing displays. I have viewed many videos from forum members and on You tube and I appreciate all the hard work and time spent sitting in from of a computer programming these amazing displays. As for myself I live on a farm along the highway with multiple out buildings that are spread out over a couple of acres. For this reason use of a lot of ELL's to connect my display (7 in total). My longest run between controllers is approx. 400 feet and if I were to hard wire between controllers I would need about 3000' of cat 5 cable ( not to mention my wife would probably not go for me ripping up the whole farm yard to run the cable lol). From what I've read on this forum ELL's and Pixels aren't a good match, the dumb RBG strips give me an opportunity to add another interesting element to my display. If I were only doing the front yard with a couple of props then I think I would consider going the pixel route for sure. I've put in a couple pictures of what I've set up for my 2016 show, Oh by the way I'm the guy that bought Old Sarges display so I'll be adding it to my set up for 2017 ( I think I'll probably have to start setting up some time in September :)

P.S. I'm rebuilding the Mega Tree this year, going 50' all Blue.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xta11ksqgtlss6v/AAAafwkHzKSTUVVjugtcp43sa?dl=0

 

 

 

 

Front Yard.jpg

30 foot Mega Tree.jpg

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13 hours ago, Bigfrog 59 said:

Yes I agree, smart pixels are very cool and some of the members here have created some amazing displays. I have viewed many videos from forum members and on You tube and I appreciate all the hard work and time spent sitting in from of a computer programming these amazing displays. As for myself I live on a farm along the highway with multiple out buildings that are spread out over a couple of acres. For this reason use of a lot of ELL's to connect my display (7 in total). My longest run between controllers is approx. 400 feet and if I were to hard wire between controllers I would need about 3000' of cat 5 cable ( not to mention my wife would probably not go for me ripping up the whole farm yard to run the cable lol). From what I've read on this forum ELL's and Pixels aren't a good match, the dumb RBG strips give me an opportunity to add another interesting element to my display. If I were only doing the front yard with a couple of props then I think I would consider going the pixel route for sure. I've put in a couple pictures of what I've set up for my 2016 show, Oh by the way I'm the guy that bought Old Sarges display so I'll be adding it to my set up for 2017 ( I think I'll probably have to start setting up some time in September :)

P.S. I'm rebuilding the Mega Tree this year, going 50' all Blue.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xta11ksqgtlss6v/AAAafwkHzKSTUVVjugtcp43sa?dl=0

 

 

 

 

Front Yard.jpg

30 foot Mega Tree.jpg

I know nothing about the ELL's, i am getting into the ESP8266, very nice setup.

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I went with the easy light linkers for a couple of reasons, 1. My entire display is 100% LOR hardware and they were plug an play. 2. I'm still a newbie in this crazy addiction and I'm trying to learn all the lingo and different options available. I think for now I'll just stay old school and try to keep it simple until I can wrap my head around all this tech. stuff. If you could send me a link or some info on this ESP8366 system I'd like to have a look at it. It never hurts to look at different options.

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Bigfrog, That is a LOT of area to cover

From what I have been reading:: E1.31 (Ethernet based) does not take kindly to being on  WiFi  (too muck delay due to traffic?) . Save your non-LOR (AKA Ethernet) network pixel controllers to the Main area (300' of the controlling device or switch).

Two access points in Bridged mode is the typical way to wirelessly  extend a typical LAN (for WEB browsing and e-mail) . The use of Yaggi antennas are the trick to get (more directional) longer  range.

If ou have WiFi at those outliers, you can use Remote Desktop Connection (the HOST part of Win Pro versions. Client is a FREE DOWNLOAD) or VNC to remote control your LOR PC to run 'tests'

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7 hours ago, TheDucks said:

Bigfrog, That is a LOT of area to cover

From what I have been reading:: E1.31 (Ethernet based) does not take kindly to being on  WiFi  (too muck delay due to traffic?) . Save your non-LOR (AKA Ethernet) network pixel controllers to the Main area (300' of the controlling device or switch).

Two access points in Bridged mode is the typical way to wirelessly  extend a typical LAN (for WEB browsing and e-mail) . The use of Yaggi antennas are the trick to get (more directional) longer  range.

If ou have WiFi at those outliers, you can use Remote Desktop Connection (the HOST part of Win Pro versions. Client is a FREE DOWNLOAD) or VNC to remote control your LOR PC to run 'tests'

E1.31 actually works perfect on Wifi, it is pixel information that does not work well on Wifi, way to much data to transmit.

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7 hours ago, TheDucks said:

Bigfrog, That is a LOT of area to cover

From what I have been reading:: E1.31 (Ethernet based) does not take kindly to being on  WiFi  (too muck delay due to traffic?) . Save your non-LOR (AKA Ethernet) network pixel controllers to the Main area (300' of the controlling device or switch).

Two access points in Bridged mode is the typical way to wirelessly  extend a typical LAN (for WEB browsing and e-mail) . The use of Yaggi antennas are the trick to get (more directional) longer  range.

If ou have WiFi at those outliers, you can use Remote Desktop Connection (the HOST part of Win Pro versions. Client is a FREE DOWNLOAD) or VNC to remote control your LOR PC to run 'tests'

ESP8266 is just a module that works through a wireless router, you can transmit data from a home computer or Raspberry Pi to 8266 receivers that are connected to controllers, no one has yet written a Wiki page on it that i know of. I am still piecing it together myself. As far as i know, it does not work yet with LOR protocol, only Reanrd, DMX and E1.31

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