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Music Copyright laws???


NTJP

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Just now, gsmith37064 said:

Thank of Righthaven and the RAA. Bottom feeders much like lawyers.

Don't need them.. don't want them. It's people like that who make it hard to upload our videos to say youtube or FB without getting the audio censored.

Here is a little reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_troll

 

You are spot on, such was my case. Whatever the background song was, there was no way the writer, producer, artist listened to that redneck homemade racing video. There are people "trolls" out there who report to the owners with hope to be on the end of a fat payday.

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With sophisticated audio recognition software, I bet many of these are automated findings.  Using google on my android phone, it can recognize a song on the radio within seconds.  Very impressive.

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Just now, christmascrossing said:

With sophisticated audio recognition software, I bet many of these are automated findings.  Using google on my android phone, it can recognize a song on the radio within seconds.  Very impressive.

Shazaam is one.

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Most video sites now have an audio algorithm that checks the audio against a database of songs and if it matches up... BLOCKED.

There has been legit cases where the music was not the trolls yet still got blocked. It's not a perfect system and it really does more harm than good.

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12 hours ago, gsmith37064 said:

Most video sites now have an audio algorithm that checks the audio against a database of songs and if it matches up... BLOCKED.

There has been legit cases where the music was not the trolls yet still got blocked. It's not a perfect system and it really does more harm than good.

I have gotten around that on youtube by labeling my videos private (only those I give the link to can view), then post the link here.  Not looking to go viral but just sharing what I did.

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Speaking of trolls...

my daughter got her BA in broadcast jounalism. One of the things she learned is three are people that go around to restaurants and if they play music from a radio station the restaurant can get fined for playing songs without a music license. I'll have to put this question to her.  

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Like most everyone else, I've had my share of videos blocked by both Vimeo and YouTube.  I just got a notice from Vimeo on a video I've had posted since 2009.  Go figure that one...

I've contested every single time, claiming fair use (in that I'm simply providing my artistic interpretation of their music) and claiming I specifically give credit to the musicians and have never claimed ownership of anything.  Over the years, I have prevailed on all but two, I think. 

Once the copyright owner (or one of their trolls) notifies the video site host, they automatically flag the song.  When you contest it, there's a set time limit for the copyright holder to respond to your protest.  If they don't, and the overwhelming majority fall into that category, you'll never hear another word about it.

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In Canada we have Socan (copyright protection for singer) . I sent  6 emails & 4 emails from 4 different people say there is no law forbidding you to play music in your yard for personal use. Oh but 2 email from 2 different people come back & say "you need this license (so for @$222 I can play any song I want publicly for the year.). Which isn't bad if we didn't have from March to Sept between 12  to 19 hours of daylight. I could play sequences that I created in Superstar all year.

Nevertheless I go by those other emails. Howbeit I go about things differently as I go to Indie singers. I tell them what I do, show them my videos, promise them I will give them proper credit, with their website etc. Then they get back to me & some say "here, lets see what you can do with this Christmas song I wrote". A nice upbeat song, catchy & off I go. I say do you want me to pay for the song & they say, no....heck your doing all the work & giving me free promotion. Others I buy the songs from. I will tell you what, these artist help me beyond words. Via Christmas contests, I ask...I need a good song for my wife's birthday, Eddie bush comes back & says here is my gift to your wife. A fantastic song....made my wife's day.  Some of the singers are right on the door step of Stardom.  I have autographed cds, pictures, I received word that there is a new autographed picture coming my way. 

So I mix Indie singers Christmas music with some mainstream Christmas music in my display.

On a side note. Choose your words wisely when you ask Indie singers for permission. 

Mega Arch is catching on to this Indie singer stuff. I said to Mega Arch.....how would you like my sequence to "Santa's Got A New Ride"...he said yes...I sent it...but I said there is one catch....you can't buy the song....you need to ask the artist for the song. Good practice. Now Mega Arch is a hero for doing a song called Breathe. 

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2 hours ago, NTJP said:

Speaking of trolls...

my daughter got her BA in broadcast jounalism. One of the things she learned is three are people that go around to restaurants and if they play music from a radio station the restaurant can get fined for playing songs without a music license. I'll have to put this question to her.  

... and the answer will be YES they can sue displays.  There are even people who are sent out to bars/etc and check to see if they have closed captions displayed on the TVs.  If so, they need a license for THAT as well.  (I kid you not).

One of the things I used to do 'while in the Biz' (and no one in the biz says they are in the biz) was manage an on-line radio station for a large media company.  On line radio has even MORE restrictions and laws.  I dealt with them for years.  In fact, I was even enjoined in a suit by the MafiRIAA while having a perfectly legal and licensed station.  Did I say I don't like them?

Can they come to your personal (not commercial) display and whack you?  Legally yes.  Double so if there is ANY money changing hands - even if it is all donated.  BUT, and here is the key, the first Xmas display they wack will IMMEDIATELY get the 'War on Christmas' folks out in full force.  The ensuing bad press will paint them in such a negative light that it is better for them to just look the other way - for now.

Now, if you are running a commercial display - say like at a mall, or light park where you collect an entrance fee, you BETTER have a Synchronization License for EVERY recording you are using.  

Disclaimer:  It's been several years since I was in the biz.  Laws may have changed since then - but if history is any indication they have stripped MORE of your rights.  I am not a lawyer.  LOR's official stance is that we offer no advice on how copyright laws are interpreted and you should contact a copyright lawyer should you have any questions.  The only music recordings LOR offers for sale are fully licensed by the artist and the composer.

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2 hours ago, lightzilla said:

....  Now Mega Arch is a hero for doing a song called Breathe. 

I don't know about hero - very strong wording. But it is rewarding and fun knowing in small ways we're helping to promote these indie artists. And as you mentioned, I did sequence Tenille Arts' charity song "Breathe". She was bringing awareness to a cause that meant a lot personally to her - Cystic Fibrosis. She donated all of her proceeds - so it made it real easy for me to want to help her out. Now she has some major Nashville contracts. As you said - door step of stardom.

Thanks for leading me this way a few years back. Many of my song choices are from indie artists. I don't see that changing for this upcoming 2017 season either. Already have a few commitments...

Back to the copyright topic - With the artists' permission we're talking about, it's still not a green light for the song not to be blocked. If it's a "cover", especially any song Sony has rights to - bamm.. If it's a "public domain" song, you're probably ok. What Scottzilla and I try to do is get an original song from the artist. Then YouTube can kiss it.. 

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Ive had no issues with Youtube or Facebook and I post all kinds of video with music....out of everyone on the forum..how many people have gotten sued???  Sure they give out warnings but its nothing more than a warning and we all use copyrighted music.  Better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission..........

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Radio stations get their music free! Have advertising rights that is also in copyright laws. We can use the music in our public displays and use the advertising right part of the law, just like politicians do. The artist themselves can ask us to stop using the music in public and can try to go to court to stop us. We can prevail because of the advertising portion of the copyright laws for music. It was to protect radio stations etc. Here is why we win in court. We buy the music, we can play it copy it but can not sell it. As long as we hold the fair use right by purchase we can do anything but sell the music. Pretty simple. If they challenge we fall under public advertising. As long as we do not sell or make a profit we pay nothing. 

 

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That is certainly NOT the case for commercial stations (almost every popular broadcast station out there is a commercial station). Commercial stations pay a royalty for every play of every song that they broadcast (with very few exceptions).
I don't know about educational and public radio stations.


Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk, so blame any typos or spelling errors on Android

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23 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

That is certainly NOT the case for commercial stations (almost every popular broadcast station out there is a commercial station). Commercial stations pay a royalty for every play of every song that they broadcast (with very few exceptions).
I don't know about educational and public radio stations.


Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk, so blame any typos or spelling errors on Android
 

I recall that it's 10 seconds of a song = $.10 in royalty fees.

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11 hours ago, Derkngoogly said:

Radio stations get their music free!

 

10 hours ago, lightingnewb said:

I recall that it's 10 seconds of a song = $.10 in royalty fees.

Both of those are incorrect.  

Terrestrial analog radio must pay the composer royalty (via ASCAP/BMI/SESAC), however they don't pay the performance royalties.  Digital stations, which I know for sure includes online stations and satellite radio  (and here is where my knowledge is limited.  I don't know if this includes HD FM or not which IS digital, but is also terrestrial) pay BOTH a composer royalty as well as a performance royalty (via SoundExchange).

There is no such thing as 'If I only play X seconds of a recording I don't have to pay a royalty'.  As soon as 1 note of any recording plays, you owe the composer royalty, and possibly the performance royalty if you are transmitting digitally.

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1 hour ago, DevMike said:

 

Both of those are incorrect.  

Terrestrial analog radio must pay the composer royalty (via ASCAP/BMI/SESAC), however they don't pay the performance royalties.  Digital stations, which I know for sure includes online stations and satellite radio  (and here is where my knowledge is limited.  I don't know if this includes HD FM or not which IS digital, but is also terrestrial) pay BOTH a composer royalty as well as a performance royalty (via SoundExchange).

There is no such thing as 'If I only play X seconds of a recording I don't have to pay a royalty'.  As soon as 1 note of any recording plays, you owe the composer royalty, and possibly the performance royalty if you are transmitting digitally.

I just remember the radio hosts helping some artist raise money by playing 10 seconds of the song to get them some royalty fee equal to $.10 ... I don't know much more than that.

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I use my display at my business and get the annual BMI license. Problem solved for only $250. I will say they were not sure what to charge as it was not their normal usage.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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On 12/31/2016 at 5:01 PM, DevMike said:

Now, if you are running a commercial display - say like at a mall, or light park where you collect an entrance fee, you BETTER have a Synchronization License for EVERY recording you are using.  

In my limited research, this too is what I found.  It seems that the synchronization license is different than the license to publicly perform it.  The difference, though, is that for a performance license, you'll pay the BMI -- who represents the music industry (They're one of three large conglomerates - ASCAP, BMI, SESAC).  The Sync License is purchased directly from the publisher.  It is usually a one-time fee and is negotiated through the publisher.  This means you could have music from several different publishers, and you'd have to get a "sync" license from each. 

If you're anything like me, this gets really confusing rather quickly. I'd love to have an industry professional give us a final word, as I feel like this comes up every other year or so.

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2 hours ago, DSolmes said:

 

I use my display at my business and get the annual BMI license. Problem solved for only $250.

 

So, you only play music from composers that are part of BMI only?  If you play any that are ASCAP, or SESAC, you are still breaking the law.  Better check the composers on all your tracks.

1 hour ago, lkcubsrule said:

 It seems that the synchronization license is different than the license to publicly perform it.  The difference, though, is that for a performance license, you'll pay the BMI -- who represents the music industry (They're one of three large conglomerates - ASCAP, BMI, SESAC).  The Sync License is purchased directly from the publisher.  It is usually a one-time fee and is negotiated through the publisher.  This means you could have music from several different publishers, and you'd have to get a "sync" license from each. 

100% correct.  Joining and paying royalties to BMI/ASCAP/SESAC only allow you to PERFORM the work - IE, broadcast it for the enjoyment of others.  Broadcast here means something in the most general sense, not just via a radio transmitter.  Playing a song through speakers is considered a broadcast.

As soon as you use that work in ANOTHER work that you intend on distributing you must secure the sync license.  Again, in the broadest sense - having people come see a light show is a distribution.   So, just playing music publicly for the enjoyment of others?  Royalties to ASCAP/BMI/SESAC.  Using a musical piece in such a way as it is integral to something else?  Synchronization rights MUST be secured.

Sync rights are negotiated with the copyright holder, which may not necessarily be the composer.  Sync rights are negotiated for a particular RECORDING, and not on the composition itself.  Take a look at this:

http://www.newsweek.com/60-versions-leonard-cohens-hallelujah-ranked-303580

So there are 60 different versions of the same song.  Now you want to play ANY of them on terrestrial radio.  No problem.  Leonard Cohen is going to get his cut (via BMI since he was part of their organization).  No one else makes a dime.  Play it on Satellite radio:  Mr. Cohen is still going to get his cut, but now we need to know WHICH of the many recordings did you actually play?  The one from Rufus Wainwright?  He gets his cut from SoundExchange (since this was a digital transmission).  Play it in your movie 'Shrek':  You need a sync license from Mr. Wainwright.  You will negotiate that directly with him (well, his management).  Here is the REAL kicker - your sync license will cover ONLY what you negotiated.  

Its 1978, and you are producing what will become a TV show which will become a hit and where music is essential to the plots:  "WKRP in Cincinnati".  Each song you play in that show, you negotiate a Sync license for.  Its the 1970's, a simpler time.  A time before DVD or even main stream VHS.  You are on a budget and are not thinking about future sales.  When you negotiate you SYNC licenses, nearly all of them are for use on broadcast TV ONLY, and then ONLY for a limited number of years.  A loophole in the then laws allow you to pay reduced rates because this is shot on tape, not film (tape was considered inferior and not long-lasting, unlike film)  No other medium, and hard set expiration date.  After all there is NO money in those other mediums.

The show goes into syndication and becomes a HUGE hit.  Licenses are still in place.  All is good with the world.  The licenses expire.  Everyone stops watching -- all the music is gone.

VHS and DVD are now a HUGE market.  You want to release the series on DVD - it's beloved and will make $.  HOWEVER all the sync licenses have expired or are invalidated because of the distribution medium that you did NOT negotiate for.  You attempt to re-negotiate the licenses so you can distribute the DVD.  Well, you have a hit now and it is going to be EXPENSIVE.  Result:  replace the music with generic sound a-likes.  People revolt!

This happens FREQUENTLY.  Two come immediately to mind:  "Married With Children" and "Stripperella" (don't judge, the biz I was in was animation).  Both title songs are replaced with generics (Originals by Frank Sinatra and Kid Rock respectively).  

Sometimes the whole deal falls through:  In the episode "Sheesh Cab Bob" (Bob's Burgers), Bob is supposed to be driving his cab with the song "Across 110th Street" (Bobby Womack) on the radio.  The song was in the production almost all the way up to the air date. In fact the closed captions from the initial airing (and initial Netflix release) are from that song.  HOWEVER, it was replaced with something created in-house.  Netflix has recently replaced the episode with one that has correct CC.

Sorry for the TL;dr post.  I'm kind of passionate when it comes to copyright law and licensing. :P

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We are all doomed.

We would all be in violation for nothing more than playing our car stereo with our windows down. How about on the lake with the wake towers with 10,000 watts of music being broadcast to the guy/ gal holding on for dear life on the tether. A simple BBQ at the park, Christmas party at work and the list could go on and on.

Unless you are profiting from it I do not think any of us small residential users have to worry. Does ABC and the rest of the networks pay a royalty while they share the videos of the Christmas Light contests?

That's IMHO.

JR

 

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