Archer Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I just visited the Hardware Forum and saw it had over 23,000 topics to research for my question. I decided to ask my friends here in the Coffee Shop. I have a controller with 2 bad channels. I know if a light stays on it is more than likely a bad triac? I have replaced triac's for channels and it fixed the problem of lights staying on. However, if a channel does the exact opposite and stays dark no matter the command can that also be a triac? kevinkolak.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godney Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) To answer your question a triac can short, lights staying on or it can stay open thus lights never coming on . I had the exact problem you are having with 1 of my controllers approx 2 years ago. So i replaced the defective triac problem went away Edited November 17, 2016 by Godney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 Thanks....I'll cut it out and replace it. Stay tuned for the answer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 I replaced 2 triacs and the channel that was on all the time is now functioning properly. The channel that was off all the time is still off all the time so the triac was not the problem..... It was worth the effort..... kevinkolak.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EARLE W. TALLEY Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Could be this little item "400V Triac opto-isolator" the little white square thing before the triac. They are not easy to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 I'm up for the challenge....Wish me luck. What are the chances it is the problem knowing I already did the triac? Thanks for your response! kevinkolak.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EARLE W. TALLEY Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I would say 90/10, I had one do the same and that fixed it, but I changed both at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOR Staff Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I should go find all my posts on how why when Traics blow and what the causes are and PIN it. As everyone has already said, 95% of the time when a Triac blows it only blows one side and you get the 50% on failure. Of the remaining 5% 4.9% totally blow both sides of the triac for a 100% on. That is pretty rare. That last .1% can blow at full off and stay full off - which is SUPER SUPER rare (but can happen). I have to agree with Earl, I think you may have an opto that went bad, but again that is like a 1 in 10,000. Before I went and started to pull it, I would trace all the way from the spade terminal on the board, thru the triac, thru the pull up resistor across the opto and then back to the PIC. Touch up (reheat) all the pins and re-test. Pulling the opto is going to be a bear if you don't have a good rework station. It is not something I recommend you do unless you have the tools and the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 I can appreciate what you are saying DevMike about getting those 6 pins out of the board but..... I had it out and the next one in, in 10 minutes. There are 2 things that you must do simultaneously and they pop out 1 side at a time. The soldering iron must have a tip that cover all 3 pins on one side at the same time. While applying the heat you must be pulling from the topside with a small pair of needle nose pliars or my favorite is with a very small flat head screwdriver pry up lightly using a neighbor as a fulcrum. Be careful as when they let loose it's quick. Repeat the process for the remaining side except this time I preferred the needlenose plairs to grab hold of the already loose side and lightly pull while applying the heat to the remaining 3 pins. Now that it's out, the holes still have solder in them.....simple fix. While heating them blow them out with compressed air. The same compressed air you use to clean your computer keyboard or other electronic equipment. They then look as clean as when new. Having done all of the above my channel is still dark....now what? kevinkolak.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robongar Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 43 minutes ago, Archer said: I can appreciate what you are saying DevMike about getting those 6 pins out of the board but..... I had it out and the next one in, in 10 minutes. There are 2 things that you must do simultaneously and they pop out 1 side at a time. The soldering iron must have a tip that cover all 3 pins on one side at the same time. While applying the heat you must be pulling from the topside with a small pair of needle nose pliars or my favorite is with a very small flat head screwdriver pry up lightly using a neighbor as a fulcrum. Be careful as when they let loose it's quick. Repeat the process for the remaining side except this time I preferred the needlenose plairs to grab hold of the already loose side and lightly pull while applying the heat to the remaining 3 pins. Now that it's out, the holes still have solder in them.....simple fix. While heating them blow them out with compressed air. The same compressed air you use to clean your computer keyboard or other electronic equipment. They then look as clean as when new. Having done all of the above my channel is still dark....now what? kevinkolak.com Hoping the solder doesn't land across two terminals and short something, when starting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 A quick recap of events.... 2 bad channels, 5 and 13 1 alway on (13) and one always off (5). Replaced 2 triacs and the channel that was always on (13) is now working properly. The channel that was dark (5) remains dark or off. Replaced the "opto" and the channel 5 still remains dark or always off. What's next? kevinkolak.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I'm hoping it wasn't just a channel he forgot to sequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 Mr P I take it you have never used the Hardware Utility....sequencing does not apply. kevinkolak.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry72 Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Never seen an LOR controller, so not sure if they use standard Resistors or not. If they do, Check them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EARLE W. TALLEY Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Also make sure the opto went in the right way, as I remember one side is reverse of the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Sarge Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 just send the thing to me and forget about it.. Let it become my problem and order yourself a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 I have about 50 controllers and only recently have I purchased them assembled. The first 40 or so were the DIY kits, I know all about putting the "opto" in the right direction but you made me look and ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOR Staff Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 20 hours ago, Archer said: I can appreciate what you are saying DevMike about getting those 6 pins out of the board but..... I had it out and the next one in, in 10 minutes. On 11/17/2016 at 2:05 PM, DevMike said: It is not something I recommend you do unless you have the tools and the experience. I guess you had the tools and experience then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 DevMike....I'm 65 and been down a few roads in my life. I have put together 40 of these controllers and I confess it was not a flawless effort in the beginning . You only have to take 1 "opto" out to realize there has to be a better way. As you know, heating 1 pin and moving it 1/1,000th of an inch is enough to make you finish the job with a claw hammer. So with a little thought, I tried heating all the pins on one side and BINGO.....it popped out so fast it surprised me. In fact it bent the pins still in the board at almost 90 degrees it was so fast. Using that knowledge when I heated the other side, they cam out straight because I was expecting it. I hope others use what I am writing to good use and theirs will come out just as easy. The compressed air trick is also a great suggestion as it can be just as aggravating getting the holes clean. Having said that....my channel 5 is still dark. I'm ready for more suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebuechner Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 You could have installed a bad component. Other possibility is overheating while your soldering it in. You wouldn't be the only person who fried a component while putting it in. the optocoupler can be very sensitive to heat. This is where a scope and a good volt ohm meter with somebody who knows how to use it comes in handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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