Audio Channels

[fmcaninch]

This is probably more along the lines of a request to the programming Gods.

I am interested in creating multiple audio channels. Any ideas on how to incorporate this into the sequence editor?

Example 1 - Left Channel could be say a talking prop and the right channel could be the music.

Example 2 - 4 separate channels???? Two stereo and two maybe separate props?

[Aaron Maue]

Though I've never tried it, I don't think you need to do anything different in the sequence editor. In fact, in its current state, the Sequence Editor can only load one audio file at a time.. You just need an audio file with the audio separated into the channels you describe in your examples. Someone - please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read somewhere that Audacity might be able to do what you're looking for.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Aaron Maue

[fmcaninch]

Sure, Audacity can import/export separate channels but what i am looking for would be lets say I take the left channel in LOR and sequence some lights to it and a separate set of lights or even the ServoDog on the right channel.

I have audio files that are multi-track recordings. Voice on one, drums another, guitar another etc. The idea I have is to mix the instruments together on one channel, NP. Then I want to use the voice track on a second audio channel. Then I can import the song as a single file into LOR and create my lighting sequence to the music. Then I want to create the mouth/eye/head movement or just the mouth movement synchronized to the same file.

[Tim Fischer]

You can still do that. You just have to do your audio mixing in Audacity (or something like it), and then bring the mixed file into LOR. Once it's there, it's up to you to sequence each lighting channel. And you can certainly sequence some channels to one part of the audio track and others to another.

[spomalley]

Yes an easy way to do this is to create the two audio tracks one with music and voice track and the other with high frequency tones (can't be heard by humans) and then plug the audio into a scary terry audio board.

Video:

Servo Board: http://www.scary-terry.com/audioservo/audioservo.htm

[fmcaninch]

I must be missing something here. Everytime I import an audio file into the sequence editor, I only see one waveform, both channels mixed together. Let me go back and look again at my Sequence editor.

[fmcaninch]

Nope, I looked again at all the settings and scanned every menu option and their is nothing I can see that will display the left and right audio channels as a separate wave form each at the top.

@Spomally I have seen that vid and I do have the same skull so I might do that but i am thinking of something a bit more involved. I am trying to find three or four of those fake carve-able pumpkins that I can add servo motors to so I can control each mouth via the ServoDog. I think that the skull would work better off of the ServoDog as well. I am not happy with the audio control board that I have in it right now. Not enough fine control for my taste. Though I have not tried the trick in the video. However if I am going to control four or five separate mouths, the ServoDog will be my first choice.

My mind set is not so much on trying to create a show that is equivalent to a school play but more along the lines of a Disney production so I am trying to step it up a bit and get a more realistic fantasy working such as sound coming from specific locations such as the actors and still allow for the music and lighting to all be synced together under one control center such as LOR. I am a Truck Driver and I am usually not at home when I have the shows running so I cant be around to start two or more devices at the same time and make sure they are all synced.

Just a little bit of the background of where I am coming from on this question.

[Tim Fischer]

Sorry, you cannot currently view L and R waveforms separately. Didn't realize that was what you were asking

[fmcaninch]

Ok, lets try this. I found this on HalloweenForum.com after some non-LOR search's and came up with this tidbit of information that may also be useful to others here. This information for me sends me down the right track that would allow me to have sound from a skeleton on one side of the yard and a pumpkin on the other side converse. The ability to make the sound eminate from a specific character is what this will accomplish.

This Quote from GoryCorey - http://www.minionsweb.com/osStore can be found here - http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/113162-synchronizing-light-o-rama-vsa.html

I spoke with VSA, they do not quite get it when it comes to the concept of playing nice with others.

Basically they say, you are on your own: "VSA Console is a program interface that allows your custom code to start and stop the playback of VSA. By writing your own code, you can trigger VSA routines from switches, etc."

Nelsons app sounds like the bridge between the vsa software and the S3 (or S2 if you choose not to upgrade) when used with the input dongle mentioned earlier.

Without having tried it personally I presume there will be some coding/setting of parameters required to make it interface effectively.

I am sure Nelson can elaborate more.

I do not know if you know this, I am one of the dozen LightOrama partners.

We serve as your first tier of sales and support of the LOR products.

If You need assistance or to order LOR products, please feel free to contact me or one of my helpers at Minions Web.

Another option to using the LOR director or mini director modules to detect trigger, running a sequence with a single audio file driven out of the LOR, is to have a sequence designed to detect trigger from the CTB16 input header connected to the controller board, which can run independent audio player(s).

This method would be less expensive and more flexible, connecting the trigger inputs to the LOR is the CTB16 Input header.

It works with the CTB16D, CTB16K, CTB16KD, CTB16PC, LOR1600W, LOR1602W and LOR1602MP3 models.

This set up would allow for multiple audio tracks to be run concurrently this way, as could multiple scenes.

This arrangement would permit many many inexpensive audio players associated with sequences, as opposed to one couple hundred buck director unit.

That would work with the servodog controller nicely.

However, my lack of experience with the 3 axis skull and servodog together makes me no help on ease or difficulty programming the motions. My servodog use is limited to controlling simple action props.

Director use advantage is that if you have one of the residential controllers you can disconnect it from the computer for standalone operation. You can also cascade controllers within a network to run multiple scenes or elements incorporating DMX and X10 components. This permits legacy and expanded control of devices.

[mixnight]

You can mix whatever audio you want but you need a audio software, you can't do it into sequence editor.

I have adobe audition, it's a multitrack software, it allow you to record, edit, import any audio or sound you want and then mix it. you can choose what you want to heard on left chanel and right chanel, in your case you want the voice into L and music into R, with adobe audition you can pan each track that means you need to pan to left the voice and pan to the right the music. I sugest to you keep the music in stereo (L+R) and voices some on the left and others on the right depending on the design of your display.

When you finish your sound editing you need to export everything that you did, when you export it adobe audition will mix everithing into L and R audio file.

You need to keep in mind that the final audio will play the mixed chanels, and sequences editor is not a audio editor, it show you the audio wave form to guide and show you the audio picks and let you create ot edit a sequences more easy.

Any questions?? PM me.

[fmcaninch]

Yes an easy way to do this is to create the two audio tracks one with music and voice track and the other with high frequency tones (can't be heard by humans) and then plug the audio into a scary terry audio board.

Well, I finally tried this trick but it appears I am not human because I can hear the 12khz tone I created. I had to bump it up to 16khz before I could not hear it anymore with an amplitude of 0.1 in Audacity. i have yet to test it on the skull but I do have a bunch of dogs outside my door for some reason.

[fmcaninch]

Interesting information I am learning about the khz.

Apparently their are some tones that can not be heard and some that can be heard by age. The 16khz tone is not audible to me however research has revealed that those whom are 30years old and younger can hear it.

22khz is also inaudible to me however everything else from 8khz to 21khz I can hear, (minus the 16khz).

So I am thinking that what I find as an acceptable range that I think can not be heard could be driving kids away like the plague.

Here are some samples for you to try if you are curious. http://www.freemosquitoringtones.org/

Another interesting fact on this is that you may not be able to hear a tone, but your stereo/amplifier can and could damage it if you are not careful.

[fmcaninch]

Ok, let me try to wrap my brain around this option;

Another option to using the LOR director or mini director modules to detect trigger, running a sequence with a single audio file driven out of the LOR, is to have a sequence designed to detect trigger from the CTB16 input header connected to the controller board, which can run independent audio player(s).

This method would be less expensive and more flexible, connecting the trigger inputs to the LOR is the CTB16 Input header.

It works with the CTB16D, CTB16K, CTB16KD, CTB16PC, LOR1600W, LOR1602W and LOR1602MP3 models.

This set up would allow for multiple audio tracks to be run concurrently this way, as could multiple scenes.

With the above in mind, lets say I have a LOR controller and a ServoDog.

Lets also say that I create a number of sequences, both music with lights and voice for the ServoDog.

In my display, I setup a skull, ServoDog controlled. We will call this Display 1.

I also setup a witch in another location of my display, Display 2.

Lets also add another item, singing pumkins, each ServoDog controlled, Display 3,4,5.

For effect lets say I add some lightening, sound with lights, Display 6.

Now I am looking at the LOR controller pumping out music and lights and 6 seperate displays. Each display has its own audio and display 1 thru 5 have their own movement via the ServoDog.

Forget about Display 6 for now.

Now I want to play some music. Some of these songs have singing so I program Displays 1 and 3,4,5 to move their mouth's with the words to the singing. I want to have a speaker dedicated to each character at the character themselves.

I add some more sequences between songs and maybe I want Display 1 and Display 4 to interact with each other maybe telling some jokes between each other.

We continue to cue different actions for each Display as the show goes. You can hear a voice to your left and a voice to your right.

With that said, the way I understand the above quote is that if I wanted to do this I can by simply adding a Mini Director to my setup. But how does the Mini Director control the audio to 5 or 6 different locations?

Am I going to have to buy 6 Mini Directors to make this happen or will one work?

Looking at the specs for the Mini Director, it appears that you load your show into that and it will control your lightshow instead of having the computer do it for you. Sounds like I am giving up one for the other.

With the Laptop and LOR controller taking care of the sequences and ServoDog functions and the headers on the board are INPUT only, I fail to see what a Mini Director is going to be able to control since that would mean that the header on the board would also have to be OUTPUT so it can send a signal to the Mini Director.

Lets say it all works the way I envision it should, what would the Mini Director have to control to make seperate audio for each of the 5 or 6 Displays and have it all synced up with the main LOR controller?

See, I am not able to wrap my brain around that concept. It is not working the way that it sounds in the quote.

[Guest wbottomley]

Am I going to have to buy 6 Mini Directors to make this happen or will one work?

Yep. If you want more than one audio file to play at a time. That includes pc's as well.

If that's not possible, I suggest go back to the drawing board and find a way to use one pc or director card. Only one musical sequence can play at one given time. Things are different when adding background & animation sequences in.

[fmcaninch]

Ok then. Brainstorming here.

Here is another option that may be less confusing, cheaper and more functional to what I am specifically trying to do.

8 channel USB sound card.

I think most are 7.1 surround type but that may work for this situation. You would have a center, left front, right front, left mid, right mid, left rear, right rear and a base speaker.

Keeping everything contained in each sequence that is sent to the LOR controller, youi could edit each audio file placing the specific sounds you want at each speaker so that when the sequence is played, you still have your music (in stereo) and your voices or sound effects placed at locations that best work with your show.

However this would have to have some experimentation. I have read someplace that the dolby drivers do not allow or make it easy for you to specifically place an audio sound at a specific speaker.

Any thoughts on this?

[spomalley]

Another interesting fact on this is that you may not be able to hear a tone, but your stereo/amplifier can and could damage it if you are not careful.

I'm sure theres a way to seperate the tracks so that damage couldn't be caused

[Guest wbottomley]

I'm sure theres a way to seperate the tracks so that damage couldn't be caused

Their wouldn't be any damage because it cannot happen.

[paulanator]

There is a cool model railroad device called the Dream Player and there is an add on, dream switcher. It is a DIY sound device that you can activate and put sound at different locations. It is pretty cool, and might have some application for what you are trying to do.

You can put different sounds on a flash card and it has 4 trigger inputs and 4 outputs. If you add on the switcher card, you can direct the 4 outputs to different speakers/areas.

It works amazing on my train layout, and I could see it working in different scenes out in a yard. One of the developers of this I believe is a former Disney sound engineer.

http://www.pricom.com/Trains/DreamPlayer.shtml

[fmcaninch]

Hmm.. Interesting tidbit of information Paulanator. I checked out the website for this item and did some reading and it looks like a good idea. Then i realized that if I want to create a show, I am limited to 4 tracks per board.

The ability to add a board to the animatronic itself and maintain all the controls with each animatronic sounds like an even better idea than what I first came up with......but.....

It has its limitations such as 79 dollars per board. with 6 animatronic characters thats $474.00 and that does not include the power supply's. Though according to the website, one power supply will take care of two of these boards.

This company has another product also available called the Dream Switcher. This will interface with the Dream Player and allow you to send the sound to four different locations. Still limited to 4 tracks though.

It does hold some possibilities though and may provide a longer term solution for animatronics that could be triggered by motion for example or audience participation via a button.

Sitting in my think tank.......

[paulanator]

Great, that was why I threw it out there.

I have both on my layout, and I have it set up to have sawmill sounds, lumber jack sounds, rushing water, and small town sounds like cars & kids playing in the park.

It is neat, because with the speakers located throughout the layout, it does give that vignette feeling of individual scenes.

Let us know what you plan on doing, it sounds like a cool project.