Light-O-Rama Forums > Light-O-Rama General Questions and Answers > General LOR Questions > Betabrite Prism LED Message sign |
Light-O-Rama Forums > Light-O-Rama General Questions and Answers > General LOR Questions > Betabrite Prism LED Message sign |
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| Betabrite Prism LED Message sign | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sunday December 6th, 2009 05:15 pm |
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1st Post |
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pdowns Member 
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Arghh! Last year I bought a Betabrite Prism LED message sign and loved the way it looked for a "Tune to" sign. But within 2 hours it died. The power supply was no longer working. So I exchanged the power supply for a new one. Within an hour it died again and I messed with it so much I voided any warranty. I had run out of time so I used a really lousy "Tune to" sign last year. Yesterday I plugged in my brand new Betabrite Prism. It lasted 2 hours. "He's dead Jim." Same symptom, no output from the power supply. ----- What's going on here? I have this by itself on a LOR channel (last year also). Is there so much electrical noise on my LOR channels that this thing is being destroyed? Or is it a bad product? Is there a way to protect it?
____________________ Pat |
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| Posted: Sunday December 6th, 2009 05:38 pm |
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2nd Post |
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Richard Hamilton Member 
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Uh.... not sure what is happening. I bought mine 3 years ago and still working fine. I keep it on day and night during the season. In day time it displays a couple of messages about show times and other things. At night during the show, I have it showing the song titles and they are playing (using LOR to run DOS batch file at beginning of each song). Oh wait a minute.... It just occurred to me that you said you have it on an LOR channel! I think that is a bad idea to put any electronic device on an LOR channel. It doesn't produce a true AC sine wave you know! It's probably not noise, but the shape of the AC wave. Have you ever looked at an LOR channel output on an O'scope? I used to plug mine into an X10 device a couple years ago so it would only be on at night, but for the last couple of years, I just leave it on all the time for advertisement. I'd re-think that approach of having it on an LOR channel. I'll bet that someone more familiar with the LOR electronics can comment better on this.
____________________ Richard - http://MagicLightShow.com Home light shows since 1996 (pre LOR) Design Commercial Displays |
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| Posted: Sunday December 6th, 2009 07:28 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Tim Fischer Member 
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I'm on at least the third year with that sign as well, maybe 4th... I only run it during the show (I used to run it 24/7 in my office off-season as a clock, but haven't lately). If it's just the power supply you should be able to pick up something else... You're not trying to run this off of an LOR channel are you?
____________________ Tim Fischer http://www.plymouthlights.com Visit and Join the Christmas Lights Webring: http://lightwebring.fischersplace.com Need a webhost? Great hosting starting at $3.99/mo! |
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| Posted: Sunday December 6th, 2009 08:31 pm |
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4th Post |
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Richard Hamilton Member
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Tim Fischer wrote: You're not trying to run this off of an LOR channel are you? Yes Tim, I think he has it running off an LOR channel by reading his post. That can't be good for an electronic device like the Beta-Brite which has little to no regulation of the AC power line.
____________________ Richard - http://MagicLightShow.com Home light shows since 1996 (pre LOR) Design Commercial Displays |
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| Posted: Sunday December 6th, 2009 08:41 pm |
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5th Post |
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pdowns Member
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OK - Just cannibalized an old PC power supply (took a sec to figure out how to get it to turn on) and have my original Betabrite running fine. I'll try again tonight without putting it on a LOR channel. It's interesting to me is that it is the Betabrie power supply that dies, not the LED message sign itself. I want the LOR show to control everything and that was my original motivation for putting the sign directly on a channel. I'll have to try another approach for the automation.
____________________ Pat |
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| Posted: Sunday December 6th, 2009 08:56 pm |
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6th Post |
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Richard Hamilton Member
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pdowns wrote: OK - Just cannibalized an old PC power supply (took a sec to figure out how to get it to turn on) and have my original Betabrite running fine. I'll try again tonight without putting it on a LOR channel. Great! Glad to see you have it going. I'll put big money on the fact that it failed by being on an LOR channel. I am also a bit surprised that it was the transformer that died rather than the sign. I think those BetaBrite AC adapters are just simple step-down transformers and not the newer type of "switchers" that are now required for sale in most states. Maybe the fast acting fuse inside the brick has blown as a reesult of being on an LOR channel. What I would be surprised about is if the AC adapter is a switching type of supply and failed. I haven't seen one work well on an LOR channel, but at least they don't typically fail.
____________________ Richard - http://MagicLightShow.com Home light shows since 1996 (pre LOR) Design Commercial Displays |
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| Posted: Sunday December 6th, 2009 09:15 pm |
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7th Post |
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Tim Fischer Member
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Richard Hamilton wrote:Tim Fischer wrote:You're not trying to run this off of an LOR channel are you? Somehow I missed the last part of the original post (I think I saw the dashes and assumed that was a signature...) LOR does't provide "normal" power even at 100% on. If you really want to control this from an LOR channel, you should use a relay. Or just use X-10, which is what I do...
____________________ Tim Fischer http://www.plymouthlights.com Visit and Join the Christmas Lights Webring: http://lightwebring.fischersplace.com Need a webhost? Great hosting starting at $3.99/mo! |
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| Posted: Sunday December 6th, 2009 09:51 pm |
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8th Post |
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pdowns Member
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I had the Betabrite power supply apart last year. It is not a switching power supply. It is a simple full wave rectifier (and capacitor) after a step down transformer. There is a non-replaceable fuse inside the power supply that fails. Simple to remove that! And then another part failed. Replacement Betabrite branded power supplies cost over $60. I like my PC power supply solution so much I'm now going to try using another one to power my EDM transmitter and see if I can remove the hum from the carrier. I went to Home Depot and to Radio Shack and they don't carry x10 hardware. That stuff must be getting antiquated. And my laptop has no serial port (just a modem) and the usb ports are in use for LOR and RDS. I can work this out, just not tonight.
____________________ Pat |
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| Posted: Sunday December 6th, 2009 09:59 pm |
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9th Post |
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Donald Puryear Member 
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you can always use a solid state relay to control the sign. I have been using RIB brand relays for years with LOR without any problems.
____________________  
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| Posted: Sunday January 1st, 2012 10:44 pm |
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10th Post |
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jeffl Member 
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Good to find this post. I have been using my BetaBrite Prism hooked up to a LOR channel for 3 years and have not had an issue. I think I'll be investigating a new solution next year.
____________________ You know you're addicted when the cost of everything you purchase is compared to a string of lights! Almost 600 Channels for 2011. http://www.ChristmasInBrandon.com |
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| Posted: Monday January 2nd, 2012 12:23 am |
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11th Post |
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k6ccc Member 
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As others pointed out, the waveform is not even close to a sine wave on a LOR channel. I would agree with Donald, have the LOR key a relay (either solid state or real mechanical relay), and have the relay power the sign.
____________________ After completing the landscaping project: Year-round: 56 LOR channels controlling about 2800 LEDs Next Christmas: Still to be determined. Current guess: About 100 LOR channels controlling about 10,000 LEDs + 300 pixels of CCPs. Jim |
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| Posted: Friday January 6th, 2012 12:31 pm |
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12th Post |
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LORisAwesome Member
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pdowns wrote: I had the Betabrite power supply apart last year. It is not a switching power supply. It is a simple full wave rectifier (and capacitor) after a step down transformer. You can still get some X-10 stuff at Amazon.com. I gave up on it when one of my timers died and I couldn't get a replacement. I've switched all my stuff over to Insteon, which is more flexible and more reliable than X-10. Unfortunately, you can't control Insteon with LOR. I just use it to turn on/off some static stuff, so it is not a problem for me. Jerry
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| Posted: Thursday February 2nd, 2012 05:18 pm |
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13th Post |
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whizzr Member
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Glad to find a forum discussing LED signs. I'm looking for some beta testers for an LED sign program I'm developing that works in conjunction with LOR. The only sign I have access to is my own, which is a crummy little sign from an Italian company you've probably never heard of. I got a pair of them off eBay really cheap, and being a tinkerer and software engineer, I got them to work by writing a little program to translate a line of text from the command line to codes compatible with the sign, and sending them out via serial. But I wanted more out of my sign than was practical with the LOR Windows command interface, so I've vastly improved the program. I'm looking for savvy testers who I don't have to hand-hold, who can work with me to test this on various models of sign. Reply here, or contact me at geeklights@gmail.com
____________________ - The Geek Geek Lights on the Corner |
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| Posted: Thursday February 2nd, 2012 05:28 pm |
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14th Post |
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whizzr Member
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By the way, I don't have all the fancy brag graphics and all that set up here, but my show, the Geek Lights on the Corner, was 50,000+ lights, and 208 LOR channels for the 2011-2012 season. We're hoping to top 75,000 lights and 264 channels this year.
____________________ - The Geek Geek Lights on the Corner |
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| Posted: Thursday February 2nd, 2012 05:28 pm |
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15th Post |
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jim6918 Member 
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Why is it such a secret as to how much these signs cost? I have been through both the Betabrite and Adaptive web sites and can't find a price anyplace. Must be pretty darn expensive if you have to fill out a contact form and wait for a salesperson to call. I like the idea of using a sign during the day to advertise show times, and possibily during the show to tell people to turn off their headlights.
____________________  
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| Posted: Thursday February 2nd, 2012 08:03 pm |
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16th Post |
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pdowns Member
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It shouldn't be hard to find a seller and a price. I just now found them on eBay ($275), U.S. Lighting products ($269) http://www.uslightingproducts.com/Programmable_LED_BetaBrite_Prism.html, Amazon ($375), etc. I can't remember what I paid for mine but it was less than these amounts, but over $200. I like the signs a lot. I do wish they were weather proof!
____________________ Pat |
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| Posted: Thursday February 2nd, 2012 08:13 pm |
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17th Post |
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whizzr Member
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What do you do to yours (if anything) to use them outside? Also, did you see my post above, looking for beta testers? Cheers...
____________________ - The Geek Geek Lights on the Corner |
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| Posted: Thursday February 2nd, 2012 08:15 pm |
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18th Post |
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jim6918 Member
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pdowns wrote:It shouldn't be hard to find a seller and a price. I just now found them on eBay ($275), U.S. Lighting products ($269) http://www.uslightingproducts.com/Programmable_LED_BetaBrite_Prism.html, Amazon ($375), etc. Your US Lighting Products link doesn't work for me.
____________________
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| Posted: Thursday February 2nd, 2012 08:26 pm |
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19th Post |
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whizzr Member
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Remove the comma at the end
____________________ - The Geek Geek Lights on the Corner |
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| Posted: Thursday February 2nd, 2012 08:49 pm |
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20th Post |
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pdowns Member
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I have only used them indoors. But what I find is that people don't notice them as reliably as I would like. Invariably some cars don't know about the FM station. On my "list" is to build a clear plastic enclosure and put a sign on top of my mailbox next to the street. That's fine for a static sign display like "tune to" but I'd also like to have an outdoor sign that dynamically updates song information. That's a wiring opportunity I haven't tackled yet.
____________________ Pat |
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| Posted: Thursday February 2nd, 2012 09:04 pm |
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21st Post |
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whizzr Member
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I took an indoor sign, and converted it to outdoor use. My sign has an extruded aluminum case, with no vent holes, mount holes, or other ingress, so the only points of entry are the front lens, and the two end caps. What I did was take everything apart, and carefully seal the front lens with silicone. Then for the sides, I removed the factory-supplied caps, and a friend with a CNC milling machine cut me two aluminum plates to fit over the ends of the sign. These were also sealed with silicone. Rather than have power and serial plug in to the side of the sign, I plug them in inside the case, and run the wires out through a channel in the bottom of the aluminum block. Each wire gets a drip loop, then passes though a junction to connect to wires that emerge from a hole in the crossarm of my "Digital North Pole". The power connection is weatherproof, but the serial connection is not. The serial line is a 4-wire intercom station wire, attached together with RJ-11 ends. The junction is simply a female-to-female RJ-11 adapter. This setup has been in use for three show seasons now, and has worked flawlessly. I've never even worried about moisture getting in to the serial junction -- it probably gets wet, but it has never stopped working, and we got absolutely drenched this past season.
____________________ - The Geek Geek Lights on the Corner |
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